Note: I thought about not publishing this post, and just using it as one of those cathartic rants that stays forever in the drafts folder but makes one feel better. But I’m grumpy today. So here it is. It’s dedicated to the smart people out there. You know who you are!
It fascinates – and pisses me off – the way that debate about Russia has been turned into a warped zero sum game of Russophobes versus Russophiles.
The only thing that matters is whether you’re for or against Russia and whether you can consistently twist the facts to meet a twisted worldview.
“I am nothing more than a Kremlin shill.
There’s not a lot of room left for the kind of people who are prepared to accept that a bad government can do something right, and that a good government can do something bad. Or, shock horror, even that a good government can occasionally do something wrong, or stupid.
Over the past few months, I’ve written posts that have both criticised and praised Russia. I write them because I think that Russia is often right, although it’s also far too often wrong.
And, far too often, I take crap from people. Usually because of what they think I have said, in the context of their tiny little world views, rather than what I have actually said, in the context of an entire blog post, or a series of posts.
Take this post about the Russo-Georgian war, for example, in which I pointed out that Georgia had been stupid to invade South Ossetia in the face of Russian provocation. Georgia, I argued, had effectively walked into a Russian trap.
One enlightened Russophobe took one look at the article, came to the stunning realisation that I am nothing more than a Kremlin shill:
“Which Gulag in Siberia do you blog from? Perhaps you should change the title to Siberian Lightly censored. I don’t know if you receive funds from the Kremlin, but you follow its line.
Before you blog, you ought to at least educate yourself instead of posting untruthful diarrhea all over the internet.
You might be too thick headed to understand. Putin wants to control the flow of oil in Russia’s backyard. The Georgian pipeline is not under his control. Putin has to bring about regime change in Georgia to get control of the pipeline. That is what this whole conflict is about. You can side with Putin or you can side with the Free world. I am siding with the Free world.”
Or, how about this post, from yesterday, in which I argued that Russia was running diplomatic rings around the EU because it was playing divide and conquer, and didn’t have too many qualms about using energy supplies as a tool of diplomacy.
Guess what. I’m not a Kremlin shill any more.
What a stupid, positively juvenile article. I don’t know why I take your RSS sometimes.
[...]That Russia poses a danger to the EU was the basic premise of the article, and it is a moronic one.
You know, it’s not really the inane insults that bother me. Or that the people who write the inane insults almost always do so behind the illusory screen of anonymity.
It’s that there are far too many people out there who simply don’t have the intelligence, or the patience to read anything properly any more, and who are too intellectually stunted to see anything outside of their own inflexible worldview.
OK. Rant over.
About Andy Young
The university in vladikavkaz had a student program with some Irish colleges about 10 years ago. So there is a fair number of North Ossetian professionals living and working in Ireland a few of whom I know.
As for your viewpoint on the speed of the Russian response to Georgia its the view widely propagated through various forms of the media and the internet and as I have shown a view that is inaccurate.
As for “a country which did not even belong to Russia until 200 years ago, and which I believe is fully entitled to run its own affairs” this is true because what we now know as Chechnya is historically the Chechen Autonomous Oblast fromed the the Soviet Union and reinstated by Khrushchev in 1957. Before that checnya was never an independant country running its own affairs. Also there was 2 chechen wars. Both of which where started by Chechens. The first after the declaration of independance grew a civil war which as we Irish know is common in new independant states. . Most Russians actually fled the region at this time and the economy collapsed as a result. This was when Russian entered chechnya. The most brutal battle in this period was the battle of Grozny a battle started by chechens. The chechen victory here resulted in Russia shelling Grozny and media coverage in moscow forced Yeltsin to a peace agreement an eventually his job.
The second chechen war was again started by now defacto independant chechens who crossed the border into Dagestan in 1999 with 1,400 Chechen, Dagestani, Arab and Kazakh militants attacking Russians in Dagestan. Chechens set of bombs in Moscow, Volgodonsk and in Buynaksk (Dagestan) killing 300 people. Adam Dekushev and Jusuf Krymshankhalov of the Wahhabi where convicted in 2004 for their part in the bombings.
Of course enter President Putin and his response was to retake chechnya. Learning from the first conflict this time Russia did not engage in guerilla warfare instead using Tanks, artillery and airstikes similar to tactics used by the Americans and British in Iraq.
While many civilians died in Russias brutal response in the second war this was as a direct result to Chechen successes in the first. Also the chechens separatists where not happy with independance and started a second war in which they where at least as brutal as the Russians.
Chechens where crushed in a war they started for a country created by the USSR (until then part of Dagestan).
Re: 10:59 PM Post
No, I handle criticism quite well “Irishman.” This includes dealing with your not so earnest approaches.
When compared to some other recent conflicts, the Russian counterattack against Georgia serves as an example of “humanitarian intervention.”
Don’t confuse your manner towards me with my facing three academics on a major worldwide radio show.
In that quote you refer to, I’m referring to this past summer’s war in the former Georgian SSR. This sdhould be clearly understood when referring to the commentary coming just before it.
Michael Averko´s last blog post..Joe The Plumber Is Now Joe The Journalist
”The university in vladikavkaz had a student program with some Irish colleges about 10 years ago. So there is a fair number of North Ossetian professionals living and working in Ireland a few of whom I know. ”
Really? Dairire, a chara? Cheapean me nach bhfuil tu Eireanach. An bhfuil aon Gaeilge agat? Ce as thu? Did you buy any chance bring home an Ossetian wife? It would explain the massive pile of bullshit that you subsequently wrote. What kind of Irish college – which colleges exactly – send kids to fucking Vladikavkaz?
”Before that checnya was never an independant country running its own affairs.”
I said that above, but Chechnya was NOT occupied by Russia until 200 years ago(conquered, the Russsians arrived before that). The Chechens, suprise suprise, werent too fond of the Russians and didnt want them there, until the Russians finally killed enough of them to make them give up and bribed Imam Shamil to surrender (a tactic still being used). So to say Russia is somehow entitled to Chechnya simply because the mountain tribes didnt issue passports or have border gaurds is a total pile of rubbish. Cop yourself on, a chara.
”Also there was 2 chechen wars. Both of which where started by Chechens.”
The First War in 1994 was started by Russia. This is an established fact and when I saw that you wrote this, I became convinced nil tu Eireanach, as none of us are that stupid over here. In november 1994 Yeltsin, after a meeting of his security council, motioned for the invasion which was seconded by Pavel Grachev amoung others. There were no abstentions or votes against. Tanks rolled in from three directions – west, central and east- supported by fighter bombers. Russia bombed Grozny and Gudermes BEFORE they got even near Grozny on the ground. Again this is established fact. As for the Second War, I am now inclined to believe it was started by Shamil Basaeyev’s attack on Ingushetia. However he was not representing the government of Chechnya at the time, and was a terrorist.
” Most Russians actually fled the region at this time and the economy collapsed as a result. ”
Again this is simply untrue. Most Russians did not leave until after bombing started and Chechnya was actually one of the few regions that had a functioning economy in 1994, courtesy of smuggling on a massive scale from Turkey and Dubai.
”The most brutal battle in this period was the battle of Grozny a battle started by chechens. The chechen victory here resulted in Russia shelling Grozny and media coverage in moscow forced Yeltsin to a peace agreement an eventually his job.”
No, the battle for Grozny was started by Russian tanks rolling in on New Years Eve 1994. The Russians had been bombing for a month beforehand. The Chechens eventually lost Grozny in February 1995, and won it back in August 1996. Again you are factually incorrect in the most basic sense.
” Chechens set of bombs in Moscow, Volgodonsk and in Buynaksk (Dagestan) killing 300 people. ”’
Yes, of course we are all convinced of the integrity of the FSB and the Russian courts, and should ignore the truckload of hexogen placed in a building in Ryazan by the Moscow FSB (without telling the Ryazan FSB) and which was later claimed to be a ‘drill’. Some bloody drill that, almost exactly like the real thing, except without the boom. And yes we should all also believe it was entirely in Chechnya’s interest to have their people bomb Moscow.
”Of course enter President Putin and his response was to retake chechnya. ”
Putin wasnt President he was Prime Minister. Any more howlers on the way? Oh and ‘retake’ – I love it.
”Learning from the first conflict this time Russia did not engage in guerilla warfare instead using Tanks, artillery and airstikes similar to tactics used by the Americans and British in Iraq. ”
Stop conning yourself. The Russians couldnt be like the Brits if they fucking tried. They bombed the shit out the place, ruined Grozny (what was left of it) and killed thousands more people, and, thanks to a clampdown on NTV, no-one has any idea how many really died. If you’re Irish then I’m bloody ashamed.
”While many civilians died in Russias brutal response in the second war this was as a direct result to Chechen successes in the first. Also the chechens separatists where not happy with independance and started a second war in which they where at least as brutal as the Russians. ”
The Russians were not facing even half the rebels in 1999 than they did in 1994. Chechnya was a broken country by then courtesy of being starved of Federal funds, subversion by the FSB and no spoort at all for the government there from Moscow. And Russia went in, again, and destroyed the place, again. Marvellous.
”Chechens where crushed in a war they started for a country created by the USSR (until then part of Dagestan).”
Chechnya was always there, even if it didnt have border guards. They just didnt want Russia in control, thats all. How you dont cop this is beyond me.
Meanwhile, keep the bullshit coming Free World.
”Don’t confuse your manner towards me with my facing three academics on a major worldwide radio show. ”
I did say well done to you about that, but wasnt that back in 2007? Do you ever stop blowing your trumpet?:-)
He gets away from what I was replying to.
His other pints were already addressed at this and some other forums.
Michael Averko´s last blog post..A Tale of Two Anne’s
“Facing three academics” – that’s scary.
Everyone knows they bite
Funny.
The point being that it’s bogus to say that a certain mentioned person ducks critical views different from his own.
It’s comparitvely easier to perform in situations where one is shielded from such criticism.
Michael Averko´s last blog post..A Tale of Two Anne’s
”His other pints were already addressed at this and some other forums”
No Mike what I discussed above were established facts, not opinions, and I am actually suprised that you had nothing to say about Free World’s drivel above – clearly most of it is just WRONG. Factually wrong! Not opinion, facts. And Mike you have never addressed any of anyone’s points about Chechnya, never mind mine. Your ‘restore order’ mantra has long been proven as rubbish. They levelled the place, not restored order, and you actually never have had anything to say about Chechnya except that. Hell, you still dont even know what an aul is. How could you when you dont even know what a derevnaya is either.
You repeat what was earlier discussed. Someone with your prose and views posting as Finbar69 did the same elsewhere. That individual was soundly debunked.
You’re once again wrong in how you characterize what I said on Chechnya. It gets boring rehashing what you repeatedly bring up.
You end by getting off topic. A typical trait on your part.
In this recent salvo, you launched a BS cheap shot about my (as per what you said) not being able to take criticism. I appropriately replied.
Michael Averko´s last blog post..A Tale of Two Anne’s
Kind of reminds me of some creep who recently had me on a happy new yeat list.
That person isn’t sincere.
Michael Averko´s last blog post..A Tale of Two Anne’s
Try sticking with the issues, in addition to not rehashing what has been repeatedly stated.
That’s good discussion and media.
That’s what I’m about.
Michael Averko´s last blog post..A Tale of Two Anne’s
”It gets boring rehashing what you repeatedly bring up.”
No, it gets boring repeating myself to people with comprehension problems. Then again, your views are your own, and at any rate you’re not listening to me anyway, and I was actually conversing with new world in the first place, not you, so I dunno why you got involved.
”Someone with your prose and views posting as Finbar69 did the same elsewhere.”
Mike, mad as I am, I dont follow you around!!:-) And I find it hard to believe someone out there has prose as bad as mine. But Finbar is definitely an Irish name – I know several, its a Cork name – maybe you rubbed up another Mick the wrong way. In fairness I’m not the only Paddy out there – there’s about 4 million here and God Knows how many Plastic Paddies and real ones in the USA.
”Kind of reminds me of some creep who recently had me on a happy new yeat list.
That person isn’t sincere.”
I simply thought it was a nice thing to do on NYE with everyone in party mood. I dont think you were ccd in any of the replies I got, which actually means I was the only person on that list to take any notice of you and bother wishing you well. Creepy behaviour alright.
You’ve lied before, as per a Russia Blog link I posted where you falsely accused me of palgiarism. That link was posted earlier at this thread.
How coincidental is it for another Irishman to post at another Russia related site with your prose and views?
You’re a creepy little crank, who has hacked away cheap shots at other sites. That’s no lie.
In your 1059 PM post here, it’s made clear clear that you were replying to me. You do this by quoting my eartlier comments at this thread. I appropriately replied to it.
I’m trying to maintain a new year’s resolution of keeping away from vile cranks like yourself. On the other hand, I don’t want to be kept from participating in otherwise acceptable conversation. It can be a fine line for sure.
All of this relates to Andy’s above post. STUPID people who immediately jump on what someone else says because of their own small minded views.
In another SL thread (a recent one) , you even acknowledged doing just that. Andy intervened by diplomatically correcting your misinterpretation of what I communicated.
Michael Averko´s last blog post..Congress Should Bail Out Porn Industry
It’s not a lie to note how you have perioidically refer to me at another venue.
I’m not the one with the problem.
I participate with the idea of having earnest discussion. This contrasts from your frequently sleazy manner.
Michael Averko´s last blog post..Congress Should Bail Out Porn Industry
”How coincidental is it for another Irishman ”
About as coincidental as finding another Yank, Brit, Frog or Paddy who disagrees with you. Indeed, with the exception of a few Russians, probably nationalists, there are around 6 billion people who likely disagree with you. I’ve certainly had shots at you elsewhere, but I dunno who Finbar is.
”All of this relates to Andy’s above post. STUPID people who immediately jump on what someone else says because of their own small minded views. ”
Mike, I am neither Russophobe nor Russophile, nor would I call anyone such names, except you, because you are a Russophile. Certainly if Andy is referring to me I am sure he would have let me know by now. Taking a hard line on Chechnya, unlike apologising for it does not mean I have a small mind. Stop speaking for other people.
”You’re a creepy little crank,” ”your frequently sleazy manner.”
I’m probably taller than you, but apart from that I havent personally insulted you on this thread and I am not going to follow your lead in response.
”It’s not a lie to note how you have perioidically refer to me at another venue.”
I’ve often referred to positively there, and I think I recently said you were knowledgeable on a lot Russia stuff.
”Michael Averko´s last blog post..Congress Should Bail Out Porn Industry”
WTF?:-) Do they need bailing out too?
Irishman
Free World’s drivel above – clearly most of it is just WRONG. Factually wrong! Not opinion, facts.
If you have a problem with what I have posted I am quite willing to listen read what you have to say, even willing to correct my post. Claiming somebody is factually wrong not opinion, facts is extremely weak considering in your post you did not challenge one fact that I posted or even produced any of your own. If you don’t want to challenge any of my post then keep me out of your little schoolyard name calling session please I don’t have enough time for that.
By the way Finbar is the anglicised form of Fionnbharr who was an abbott and bishop who kept the Catholic Church alive in Ireland during the seventh and eighth centuries. There are many myths about Fionnbharr including crossing the Irish sea on a horse. There is an Island of the coast of scotland named after him Barra. Also the more common name Barry is a version of Fionnbharr.
Another round of inaccurate commernts from the usual source. This includes suddenly playing the role of innocent victim after stating a series of disrespectful and inaccurate comments.
I’ve been a constructive critic of Russia. This has included my expressed views on Russia’s decision to recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia as indpendent states. Along with some others, I’ve offered valid constructive suggestions on improving the current status quo of Russian government funded English language media/PR efforts.
Some people erroneously see themselves as being more “objective.” Overall, that’s not the case. Moreover, I’m the one offering valid points, which are often under-respresented at a number of the leading non-Russian English language venues. I do this by welcoming earnest (as opposed to not so earnest) dialogue with those in disagreement.
The word “small” can refer to something else other than the actual height of a person.
My M.O. is clear. Interact respectfully and this manner will be reciprocated. Get chippy and you can expect the same.
I dunno what’s up with that last blog post bit.
Michael Averko´s last blog post..Congress Should Bail Out Porn Industry
Re: “Objectivity” and Russia
This note serves as a follow-up to my last set of comments.
It’s inaccurate to believe that by default Marxist, neocon and neolib leaning individuals are more accurate sources over some others. The same can be said of some other views as well. Besides, within each grouping, there’s room for disagreement. I’ve had respectful differences of opinion with people who I often agree with.
Without naming names, some individuals frankly don’t know the subject matter they’re commenting on. A case in point is the individual who said that my written commentary is “anti-Semitic,” while simultaneously saying that he wasn’t familiar with such material. Is that intelligent commentary on his part? On his claim, the private and not so private feedback was 100% against him. This included people who have disagreed with me on other topics.
As for my “objectivity,” I’ll give another example from what was mentioned in my previously posted comments. I’d a conversation with someone very familiar with Siberian Light
The discussion was about some views from Russia which suggested that Russia’s top ice hockey league can eventually challenge the National Hockey League in overall quality. With facts, I expressed the view that such a thought was far fetched in the foreseeable future and one which doesn’t benefit Russia’s top ice hockey league. In jest, the person I was discussing this topic with said that my “reputation” can get shattered with such a thought.
As an example of he kind of BS I’ve faced, it’s not earnest advocacy to comparatively jump all over me while being mum on comments which say that Stalin was instrumental in defeating Nazism (this matter deals with another venue). More accurately put, the peoples comprising the USSR were instrumental in defeating Nazism. This was achieved despite Stalin’s blunders which included a purging of the Red Army officer corps in the 1930s and his refusal to believe his own intell. of an upcoming Nazi attack. The latter point resulted in the USSR not being well defended during the Nazi attack.
The other day, I mentioned this point to a Belarusian Orthodox Jew from Minsk. He didn’t disagree with me. However, he expressed the view that Russians tend to give the leader credit when things are going well, while conversely blaming him/her when things aren’t going right. I’m not sure how different or how much more different this is from other peoples. In any event, this view isn’t always accurate. A lousy coach can still win on account of having a very talented team. Likewise, a very good coach can still lose because his team isn’t so talented.
Michael Averko´s last blog post..Mentoring Women and Women Mentoring
”If you don’t want to challenge any of my post then keep me out of your little schoolyard name calling session please I don’t have enough time for that. ”
I called what you wrote nonsense, and point-by-point I went through that nonsense. If you cant see that, or refuse to acknowledge that., then maybe you’d best avoid posting Ossetian/Russian garbage in future. Most of what you wrote was simply WRONG. If you believe that Chechnya started the First War in 1994, then you either hopelessly ill-informed, disingenuous, or both. Le do thoil, a chara.
”By the way Finbar is the anglicised form of Fionnbharr who was an abbott and bishop who kept the Catholic Church alive in Ireland during the seventh and eighth centuries….” etc
Free world, could you do us a favour? Rather than copying almost verbatin stuff from the internet, and passing it off as your own, couldnt you simply provide a link to what you are thieving?
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Finbar
”This was achieved despite Stalin’s blunders which included a purging of the Red Army officer corps in the 1930s and his refusal to believe his own intell. of an upcoming Nazi attack. ”
Thats totally true. And lets not forget Hitler’s contribution, telling Guderian to ignore Moscow with the city at his mercy and concentrate on the South.
”Without naming names, some individuals frankly don’t know the subject matter they’re commenting on.”
Well, at least I know the year the First War started, unlike someone I could mention, without naming names. .
That person sure as heck wasn’t yours truly.
Michael Averko´s last blog post..Hugo Chavez To Keep Sending Free Oil To US Poor
”That person sure as heck wasn’t yours truly.”
Ahem. Actually it was you. Click on the link below and read the comments underneath. You got it wrong, and even – grudgingly-admitted it, when you had no way out. I wouldnt have brought this up except for the fact that this alone convinced me you know nichevo about Chechnya.
http://seansrussiablog.org/2007/05/22/crying-sun-the-impact-of-war-in-the-mountains-of-chechnya/#comment-3178
The troll strikes again.
You’re a poor communicator. I was referring to WW II. You then mention the “first war” right after commenting about reference which was made to WW II.
Everyone makes a mistake.
This isn’t to be confused with the BLATANT LYING you did over at Russia Blog (the link was previously referenced at this thread).
You’re the one who continuously trolls on about Chechnya in a way that hasn’t negated anything I said, other an earnest mis-statement.
You really are small as shown by the creepy way you carry on.
Michael Averko´s last blog post..National Library Service Improves Quality of Life for Blind and Handicapped
Really? Dairire, a chara? Cheapean me nach bhfuil tu Eireanach. An bhfuil aon Gaeilge agat? Ce as thu? Did you buy any chance bring home an Ossetian wife? It would explain the massive pile of bullshit that you subsequently wrote. What kind of Irish college – which colleges exactly – send kids to fucking Vladikavkaz?
Heres a link showing Letterkenny college being an offical partner to the North-Ossetian State University in Vladikavkaz. Students do not goto Vladikavkaz they come from there to study in Ireland. though I don’t think they do it anymore.
http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=1839&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=208.html
As for the Ossetian wife no I am way too busy for that., but I will tell you this the women are very pretty. They remind me in the stereo type Italian woman.
“I called what you wrote nonsense, and point-by-point I went through that nonsense. If you cant see that, or refuse to acknowledge that., then maybe you’d best avoid posting Ossetian/Russian garbage in future. Most of what you wrote was simply WRONG. If you believe that Chechnya started the First War in 1994, then you either hopelessly ill-informed, disingenuous, or both. Le do thoil, a chara.”
I clearly did not see your post as it was probably in amonst all the nonsense name calling you and other members where clearly taking part in. So I will reply to them now.
First an foremost if I want a regurgitation of politcal spin on Chechnya I will look at CNN. What most western political commentators tell us is that Chechnya was a little nation yearning for independance and declared it in 1991. However the big bully Russia using a variety of dirty tactics eventually bombed Grozny in 1994. The thing about propaganda is its partially true. Russia did bomb Grozny in 1994, Russia did enter into Chechnya in 1994. However this viewpoint leaves out several key facts. The first chechen war actually started directly after the declaration of independance. I know its nice and neat for some to say the war started when the russians launched their first attack however there had been running battles in Chechnya in the years before that. Some refer to the period of 1991-1994 as the undeclared civil war though very quietly. This period was was to see the split in the Chechen Ingush Autonomous Region and is the first time Chechnya’s borders as they are now even existed. You have failed to mention at best Chechens where split on seeking independance and this was the catayst for the start the war. Another point you failed to mention was the brutal ethnic cleansing of non-chechens including ethnic Russians and other nationalities upto 1993 and was the main reason for the collapse of the chechn economy. Estimates put the number at least 90,000 ethnic cleansed. These where the first casualities of the first conflict in Chechnya.
Really? Dairire, a chara? Cheapean me nach bhfuil tu Eireanach. An bhfuil aon Gaeilge agat? Ce as thu? Did you buy any chance bring home an Ossetian wife? It would explain the massive pile of bullshit that you subsequently wrote. What kind of Irish college – which colleges exactly – send kids to fucking Vladikavkaz?
Heres a link showing Letterkenny college being an offical partner to the North-Ossetian State University in Vladikavkaz. Students do not goto Vladikavkaz they come from there to study in Ireland. though I don’t think they do it anymore.
http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=1839&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=208.html
”The most brutal battle in this period was the battle of Grozny a battle started by chechens. The chechen victory here resulted in Russia shelling Grozny and media coverage in moscow forced Yeltsin to a peace agreement an eventually his job.”
You have jumped to conclusions. Infact there where three battles of Grozny. The last in August 1996 a battle started by the Chechens.
Yes, of course we are all convinced of the integrity of the FSB and the Russian courts, and should ignore the truckload of hexogen placed in a building in Ryazan by the Moscow FSB (without telling the Ryazan FSB) and which was later claimed to be a ‘drill’. Some bloody drill that, almost exactly like the real thing, except without the boom. And yes we should all also believe it was entirely in Chechnya’s interest to have their people bomb Moscow.
It was as much in the Chechens interests to bomb these buildings as to invade Dagestan or for example
Again this is simply untrue. Most Russians did not leave until after bombing started and Chechnya was actually one of the few regions that had a functioning economy in 1994, courtesy of smuggling on a massive scale from Turkey and Dubai.
At least 90,000 where forced out with some estimates as high as 200,000. Chechens effectively ethnic cleansed those key to their economy. Russias blockade, effectivey cut off jobs in Russia and trade. As for the Russian coined phrase “Chechen bandit economy” only warlords and chechen politicans got rich of this including Dudayev. In 1993 many Chechens did not even get their salaries paid.
Stop conning yourself. The Russians couldnt be like the Brits if they fucking tried. They bombed the shit out the place, ruined Grozny (what was left of it) and killed thousands more people, and, thanks to a clampdown on NTV, no-one has any idea how many really died. If you’re Irish then I’m bloody ashamed.
That was the very point I was making like the Brits they bombed the crap out of the place.
The NTV claim is pretty weak, first considering that its impossible to total casualites in any war. Just go and ask the americans or British how many civilians have died in Iraq see what anwser you get. you also failed to mention that towards the end of 1995. Remeber Chechens would never have disguised themselves as journalists being a guerilla force and all. Of course the Russias really copied the US bombings in 1995 in Yugoslavia and first Iraq conflict.
The Russians were not facing even half the rebels in 1999 than they did in 1994. Chechnya was a broken country by then courtesy of being starved of Federal funds, subversion by the FSB and no spoort at all for the government there from Moscow. And Russia went in, again, and destroyed the place, again. Marvellous.
So Chechnya where broken because of being starved of federal funds! What would Chechnya want Federal funds considering they declared independance from Russia.
Again wheres you mention of how the Shamil Basayev led 1400 men in Dagestan. It was this event that triggered the second chechen conflict.