Putin’s last annual press conference

Putin at United Russia ConferenceVladimir Putin gave his final annual Press Conference as Russian President on Thursday.

According to Kommersant, at more than four hours, it was his longest ever and, as usual, Vladimir Vladimirovich has thrown out plenty of media-worthy quotes to excite press interest. Some crude, some scary, some twee.

To give you a flavour of the event, I’ve compiled some of my favourite quotes from the press conference and grouped them together around a few key themes.

On political leadership

It seems as though Putin wasn’t impressed with Hillary Clinton’s recent quip about his not having a soul. When asked what he thought of Clinton he quickly snapped back:

“A state official must at least have brains.”

Current President George W Bush, on the other hand, is clearly Putin’s soulmate:

“Sometimes you have to make decisions that nobody else can make… Do you think Bush has it easy?”

In his own job, Putin confessed that he works “like a galley slave”, but didn’t ask for any sympathy:

“Heads of state have no right to whinge, or drool for any reason… If they are going to slobber and blow snot and say things are bad, bad, then that’s how it will be.”

I don’t know about you, but to me those sound like the words of a man with a cold.

On being the richest man in the world

For a while now an unsubstantiated story has been floating around about Putin’s $40 billion wealth – his alleged ill-gotten gains from 8 years in the Kremlin. Putin clearly isn’t impressed by the man who has been spreading the rumours, bringing out the snot reference yet again:

“They picked it [the story] out of their noses and smeared it on paper.”

But in one sense, he really is the world’s richest man:

“That is true. I am the richest man in Europe and the whole world. I collect emotions. I am rich because the people of Russia have twice entrusted me with the top position in such a great country as Russia. I think this is my greatest wealth.”

On the future

Of course, the main question on everyone’s lips was “So, what are you going to do after the election, Vladimir Vladimirovich, when you have to move out of your shiny Kremlin office?”

For a change, Putin was willing to talk. Here’s a collection of his comments – I’ll leave it for you to judge what he meant:

“I know how the head of state’s job is set up, and assure you that our relations will be quite harmonious. I will never step in for the head of the government. I consider that damaging and counter-productive.”

“I should not cry but be happy that I have the opportunity to work in another capacity, and in another capacity to serve my country. I will be involved in the same tasks as when I was president. I will continue working.”

“The premiership is not a transitional post,” he said. “If I can see that in this capacity I can fulfill these goals, I will work as long as possible. There is no other answer.”

“I was never tempted to stay for a third term. Never,” he said. “From my first day of work as president I decided for myself that I would never violate the existing constitution. […]

Some are addicted to cigarettes, some, God forbid, to drugs, and some become addicted to money. They say that the worst addiction is to power. I have never felt that. I have never been addicted to anything.”

“The president is the guarantor of the constitution. He sets the main directions for internal and external policies. But the highest executive power in the country is the Russian government, headed by the prime minister”

On Foreign Affairs

As you’d expect, Putin was blunt, possibly even confrontational when stating his views on foreign policy. He certainly pulled very few punches. On US plans for a missile shield based in Poland and the Czech Republic he threw out a nuclear threat:

“Our experts believe that the system threatens our national security. If it appears, we will have to react adequately. We will probably have to retarget our missiles against those objects which threaten our security.”

In a move that will please many, Putin drew parallels between independence for Kosovo and other struggles for national liberation around the world. Surprisingly, though, he shied away from traditional examples, such as Trans-Dniester, and instead cited Cyprus:

“I don’t want say anything that would offend anyone, but for 40 years northern Cyprus has practically had independence,” Putin said. “Why aren’t you recognizing that? Are you not ashamed in Europe of the double standards you are applying to settle problems?”

“I will yet again emphasize that we consider that unilateral support for independence for Kosovo is immoral and illegal.”

The greatest disdain, however, was reserved for those who want to monitor Russia’s Presidential election for compliance with ‘democratic’ standards.

“Let them teach their wives to make cabbage soup”

Indeed. At this rate, I’m going to need to update my Putin quotes to live your life by article.

Update: A full transcript of the press conference can be found at kremlin.ru. Thanks to Ger for the link.

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326 Responses

  1. Some articles on the post’s topic:

    http://www.russiaprofile.org/page.php?pageid=Politics&articleid=a1203020396

    http://www.russiaprofile.org/page.php?pageid=Politics&articleid=a1202995990

    Which leader (or leaders) from another “major” (France, UK, US, China, Germany, Japan) country (or countries) does (or do) a better job than Putin, when it comes to having a responsive attitude with the media?

    —————————————————————————

    “I will yet again emphasize that we consider that unilateral support for independence for Kosovo is immoral and illegal.”

    ****

    Agree.

  2. Andy says:

    Which leader (or leaders) from another “major” (France, UK, US, China, Germany, Japan) country (or countries) does (or do) a better job than Putin, when it comes to having a responsive attitude with the media?

    I’m not sure about Gordon Brown, but Tony Blair used to hold monthly press conferences. The questions tended to be pretty tough because most in the press thought he was a bit of a smarmy git. You can find a sample from 2007 here:

    http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page10763.asp

    And, of course, the opposition used to try to crucify him each Wednesday, live on TV, during Prime Ministers Questions.

  3. Thanks for the feedback.

    US press conferences involving the president and other American government organs are known for being rather managed at times.

    Amy Goodman established a reputation as the pain in the ass outside the mainstream journalist, who asked the questions others wouldn’t dare raise. If I’m not mistaken, this has led to her being taken off some gatherings.

    Also, note Bush being caught off the record calling a NYT reporter an asshole for the reason of that journalist being perceived as a staunch critic.

    Regarding the recent press conference: in fairness to Putin, he wasn’t the one who raised Hillary Clinton’s not so flatering comment about him. A number of Americans felt he gave an appropriate reply to her unkind remark about him. I thought Putin handled the Polish journalists’s questions relatively well.

    The contemporary Russian political system iz what it iz (some NY lingo). It appears an improvement from the last decade and isn’t etched in stone. United Russia shows signs of becoming a more openly diverse thinking party. Other Russian political movements exist, albeit problematically. Non-Democrats/non-Republicans have similar problems in the US.

    Russian government funded English language media/public relations projects will hopefully improve over time. Mainstream Russian views have some valid points, which should ideally exist with as great an intelligent presence as possible. This includes understanding the opposite spin and how to best approach it.

  4. Following up on some earlier comments:

    A recent BBC telecast acknowledged that the anti-Saakashvili opposition had complaints with the way the OSCE conducted its monitoring of the recent Georgian election.

    The OSCE is far from being perfect and should therefore be open to valid criticism. An interesting read of recent events in Georgia at:

    http://www.bhhrg.org

    BTW, during the recent Russian Duma vote, RTTV gave plenty of air time to the opposition (Zyuganov, Kasparov, Limonov, Yavlinsky), which didn’t hold back in stating their negative views of the election process.

  5. “Putin is a soldier, no doubt, and he acts and sounds like one. He’s only a few steps from the lads we see pyani at Park Pobyedi in summertime.”

    If I recall correctly, Putin has never been a “soldier”. As a matter of fact, when Putin was a student at Leningrad University in the early 70s(Law) he was enrolled in the “faculty of military matters”. This saved him from being drafted and having to serve in the forces. What he was obliged to do was to participate in the “reserve officers trainig course” at university and later was “awarded” the rank of a lieutenant (reserves). [Source: Vladimir Putin – A biography, by Alexander Rahr]

    “Pyani” ? Like ?????, as a result of a ?????? ?

    Well, according to Alexander Rahr’s authorised Putin biography, Putin was very fond of drinking German beer while being assigned to the KGB’s office in Dresden / Germany. The local KGB agents had their favourite pub there, called “Am Thor”, where Putin regularly downed quite a few beers. He was only seen drinking Vodka on special occasions, to the disliking of the waiter he brought his own bottle. Until today, the pub has “Putin’s Corner”, the corner where Putin used to sit.

    Putin himself admits having drunk about 4 liters of beer per week back then. His East German counterparts of the vaunted STASI considered Putin being “a rather unusual Russian” for drinking much less than the other KGB agents, and for regularly seeing him pour his Vodka into a flowerpot during the “official parties” the STASI arranged for their friends (KGB).

    So I don’t really think that Putin will end up being one of the veterans sitting in ???? ?????? in the near future.

  6. Aleks says:

    Did someone mention the OSCE? I’ll never miss an opportunity to pimp for the best potty-mouthed site on russia (in english, and El Russoprobe doesn’t count as it is strictly within the sphere of entertainment):

    Who Killed The OSCE?
    http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=14536&IBLOCK_ID=35&phrase_id=15622

    How do you spell Hypocrisy? O-S-C-E
    http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=7149&IBLOCK_ID=35&phrase_id=15622

    I see Putin as a white rabbit handler, aka a magician, who like spooks are drawn towards the sleight of hand. Maybe I should add finance ministers too?

    Still, I wonder if he is upset that Ahmadein Najad’s double act with Dubya puts them both way ahead in the comedy stakes?

    Andy, any chance of a death count off? I.e. how many deaths can be directly and indirectly accountable to both US and Russian foreign policy spheres of influence? I’m afraid that Putin might loose that one….

  7. As previously noted, the post-Soviet score of attacking other countries is: USA 2 – Russia 0

    Regarding Russian political parties, reference the earlier mentioned RTTV coverage of the last Duma vote. Lavelle made note of Russian parties requiring a certain number of signatures.

    In the US, the Repub.-Dem. dominance is often explained in terms of many Americans not willing to go far in opposing that status quo. This despite many of them not limking it.

    People the world over have similarities. Differences do exist. It’s important to properly understand them. A not so easy precise task, since it’s a soft science, open to opinion.

  8. Regarding Putin and Germany:

    Putin is known to be a Germanphile. A number of Russians are. Despite being on opposite ends in two world wars, Russia and Germany (especially Russia and Prussia) have had periods of close and rather friendly ties.

    I recall a NYT article from awhile back, discussing a Jewish friend of Putin’s questionihng him on Germany. Putin’s answer was something along the lines of how Russia can’t be solely blamed for the Soviet past; much like how Germany hasn’t been the only problematical country on the European continent. The USSR couldn’t have succeeded without many non-Russian supporters. Likewise, the Nazis had their share of non-German allies.

  9. Chechnya isn’t a country. Fact. Russia had ample reason to take military action in that Russian republic. This doesn’t excuse the way the two post Soviet wars in Chechnya were conducted.

  10. Regarding those two wars, genocide is an inappropriate description regarding Chechnya and Chechens.

  11. Pardon the digression:

    “You can’t necessarily trust a Russian, but you can always trust a Russian to be a Russian.”

    How would the above quoted be treated if read as:

    “You can’t necessarily trust a Jew, but you can always trust a Jew to be a Russian.”

    and-or:

    “You can’t necessarily trust a Black, but you can always trust a Black to be a Black.”

    Selective Sensitivity 101

  12. Edit from last post (second quote):

    “You can’t necessarily trust a Jew, but you can always trust a Jew to be a Jew.”

    Paging a certain human rights attorney who has willingly appeared at the venue where the first quoted (from last post) is stated.

    That guy had the gall to falsely accuse me of something negative, which I’m clearly not. On top of it, he said he wasn’t familiar with my work. Yet, he simultaneously felt familiar enough to make a falsely negative comment, in what I took as a foolhardy attempt to smear me.

  13. From top to bottom:

    “As previously noted, the post-Soviet score of attacking other countries is: USA 2 – Russia 0”

    CORRECT

    On Chechnya, Dudyaev made reasonably clear what he was and wasn’t willing to do. During his rule, the lawlessness in Chechnya increased. Countries have a right to combat such turmoil. As for the use of the word “geoncide”, in recent history, can the Americans and Israelis be accused of doing the same? I’m looking for an even application of the term. Regarding Chechnya, Russia wasn’t looking to wipe out Chechen identity and it’s not balanced to gloss over the clear wrongs of the Dudayev and Maskhasdov regimes.

    One should be careful when making collective impressions of different peoples, since it isn’t 100%. Having said that, among Russians and Germans, there seems to be a good consensus in terms of recognizing that there’s a good deal of dreck to be found all over.

    BTW, my father’s mother’s side are Baltic-German Jews, Vilnius via East Prussia (Danzig, now Gdansk Poland). They were very assimilated into Prussian culture. My father’s father’s side are Russian Orthodox Christians from St. Pete. My grandfather married my grandmother in clear contradiction of the kind of stereotypes generally presented.

  14. Actually they call it “The Great Patriotic War”. But yes, the present relations between Germany and Russia are great. And they are improving constantly. Russians not referring to present day Germans being “the fascists”, and Germans not referring to present day Russinas being “the bolsheviks”, indicates that both countries finally arrived in the 21st century while other countries are obviously still stuck in the past. A past which is, by no means, significantly less bloodstained than the fascist / bolshevik periods in Germany / Russia. And as Russia and Germany move along, the attributes formerly assigned to them are now assigned to others. The fascists / bolsheviks of the 21st century no longer live in continental Europe.

  15. Andy says:

    “As previously noted, the post-Soviet score of attacking other countries is: USA 2 – Russia 0?

    True, but the post-Soviet score of attacking one’s own country = USA 0 – 1 Russia.

    A clear victory 😉

  16. Russia was responding to clear problematical issues within a part of its country.

    Nations have certain rights when it comes to policing its own internal situations.

    This shouldn’t be confused with attacking other countries on more questionable grounds.

    The fact of the matter is that in the past deacde, Chechnya TWICE had great autonomy, which was regretfully abused in a way that needed to be addressed.

    The Turkish inhabited Kurds haven’t come close to having the kind of autonomy Chechnya has experienced.

  17. A reminder of this earlier presented set of comments at this thread:

    “Andy, any chance of a death count off? I.e. how many deaths can be directly and indirectly accountable to both US and Russian foreign policy spheres of influence? I’m afraid that Putin might loose that one….”

    ****

    I take it to mean that Russia is meant to mean in the post-Soviet period.

  18. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Mike, I’m not looking for comparisons, which you use all the time. I’m taking about an amazingly vicious war against not only Chechen rebels, but Chechen AND Russian civilians. Dudaeyev wanted negtiotions with Yeltsin; as an elected leader of a Russian republic, he was entitled to that. And I dont know why you’re parroting that 2-0 stat again. Its the same for internal Russian conflict so overall that makes it Russia-2 USA-2. The Yanks werent dumb enough not to murder their own people – and MURDER is exactly what the Russians did in Chechnya. But you the Russophile excuse that.Good man yourself. As well as the Serbs. You’ve got quite a gig going there for yourself. Mind you looking at RT I think you might be an improvement.

    ”Nations have certain rights when it comes to policing its own internal situations.”
    This comment would be funny if the subject wasnt so serious. Can you imagine London levelling Newcastle-Upon-Tyne with fighter bombers because of rowdy Geordies? Or Dublin blowing away Cork cos the people there are a pain in the arse? Good grief! Note to Mike: Those little model MiGs and Sukhois, they look cute, dont they? Well, guess what, the grown up ones KILL REAL PEOPLE!

    ”Actually they call it “The Great Patriotic War”.” I never said they didnt. What I said was they refer to the German invaders as Facists, not Germans. But I agree entirely with what you said – in fact many of our own citizens here are stuck in an anti-Brit past, though it is diminishing. It simply amazes me how positive towards the Germans the Russians are, considering all that happened. In fact I would think that Russia’s best friend in the West is probably Germany.

    ”BTW, my father’s mother’s side are Baltic-German Jews, Vilnius via East Prussia (Danzig, now Gdansk Poland). They were very assimilated into Prussian culture. My father’s father’s side are Russian Orthodox Christians from St. Pete. My grandfather married my grandmother in clear contradiction of the kind of stereotypes generally presented.”

    So are you Jewish or Orthodox, if that isnt a rude question(genuinely excuse me if it is). Why do you feel such a strong attachment to Russia, when you’re made in the USA? Attachment to countries abroad is something I’ve never understood in Americans, possibly cos I’m total Paddy.

  19. Gross double standards are presented on a regular basis. For accuracy sake, it is quite appropriate to detail the particulars on such matters. On the other hand, it is extremely disingenuous to willingly accept such a status quo and attack those individuals who earnestly detail the fault lines.

    Dudayev talked a good deal of bullshit. At best, he could not completely control the situation in Chechnya. At worst, he was a contributor to the lawlessness there. There is evidence showing both those suggestions. Civilians die in conflicts where one or more of the warring parties reside with civilians. Singling out Russia on such a point is hypocritical. The fire bombing of Dresden, the A-Bomb droppings over Hiroshima and Nagasaki are extreme examples of targeting civilians. In Chechnya, the terrorists often resided in civilian areas.

    You are so full of shit with your incessant anti-Serb/anti-Russian pronouncements and yes RTTV would definitely improve with my active and constructive involvement with that organization. Anglo-American actions in Iraq, Turkish behavior towards Kurds and Israeli strikes against their opponents have been far from pristine. So much for your hypocrisy.

    I am what I am – a multi-ethnic product, created in a melting pot of a country. I am everything that the Izetbegovic regime claimed to be to a Western audience. Only my claim is the more reality based. In the American mass media, academic and political establishments, there has been a good deal of bias against Russia. I take pride in having a seemingly natural inclination to speak out against wrong.

  20. On the subject of gross biases:

    Re: “Peace in our time.”

    While not being similar in some aspects: a possible 1938 like scenario is at play, involving the same countries willing to violate the territory of a nation.

    What happened to Czechoslovakia in 1938, played a role in what was to occur in Poland a year later.

    Likewise, the granting of an independent Kosovo serves to enhance existing problems.

    The main problem being the hypocritical standards some use to determine which territory does and doesn’t achieve independence.

    The Absurdity of “Independent” Kosovo
    http://www.counterpunch.org/szamuely02152008.html

    Earlier article on the same subject:

    Debunking the pro-Kosovo Independence Claims
    http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/52219

  21. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Comparisons, comparisons, comparisons, same old, same old, do you have any other strings in your bow? Clearly not. Quite how what happened in Dresden, Hiroshima etc makes what happened in Chechnya passable is beyond me, sorry. And it is obvious that this ranting of yours is the chief reason, alongside poor writing, that you are not a full-time paid journalist.
    I’m quite certain after reading what you’ve written that you know little or nothing of Chechnya, and it makes me wonder about everything else you say, even stuff I’d have given you the benefit of the doubt in. Like it or not, you’re a crank and are likely to remain so.

  22. “It simply amazes me how positive towards the Germans the Russians are, considering all that happened.”

    I think it’s not amazing at all. *What is happening today* and *what we would like to happen in the future* is definitely more important than *all that happened in the past*.

    “In fact I would think that Russia’s best friend in the West is probably Germany.”

    From my point of view this assessment is entirely correct.

    Things are going great, and they’re only getting better. The future’s so bright, we gotta wear shades 🙂

  23. The below comes from an idiot troll, who is unable to successfully defend his wacked out views. Note how he has served as a willing idiot for some other cranks like the one (Chris Doss) who rather cowardly left the SL threads:

    Comparisons, comparisons, comparisons, same old, same old, do you have any other strings in your bow? Clearly not. Quite how what happened in Dresden, Hiroshima etc makes what happened in Chechnya passable is beyond me, sorry. And it is obvious that this ranting of yours is the chief reason, alongside poor writing, that you are not a full-time paid journalist.
    I’m quite certain after reading what you’ve written that you know little or nothing of Chechnya, and it makes me wonder about everything else you say, even stuff I’d have given you the benefit of the doubt in. Like it or not, you’re a crank and are likely to remain so.

  24. Using the troll’s own selectively applied “logic” (in prior posts of his), he’s in no legitimate position to critique me; due to his not having achieved anything of great significance.

    In an earlier post, he tried to belittle my accomplishments with the lie that 99% of my work is on blogs. 100% of his “work” (trolling) is done on blogs.

    Like a slime ball coward, he engages in a troll patrol pack of out and out personal attacks having nothing to do with the actual subject matter.

    So much for losers like him.

  25. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Its simply amazing for me – coming from a country with a long history of trouble with Britain that a lot of people wont forget. Its a great example to everyone.

    ”Things are going great, and they’re only getting better. The future’s so bright, we gotta wear shades”

    Its a brilliant song, heard it only last nite on an 80s show on the radio)

    Mike, many times I have debunked your view on Chechnya – pretending that hasnt happened aint gonna make it disappear.

  26. As this thread shows, you did nothing of the sort.

  27. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Using the troll’s own selectively applied “logic” (in prior posts of his), he’s in no legitimate position to critique me; due to his not having achieved anything of great significance.”

    Actually I’ve been published scientifically once, in the world’s most imporant toxicology journal, and the work I did was a world first – I was the first chemist to detect recombinant human erythropoietin in greyhound samples. It became a national scandal in Ireland after I’d found some real positives. Bear in mind this work was done as a hobby – I had to to do a normal day’s lab work apart from this, and its just one chapter of my PhD.

    http://www.jatox.com/abstracts/2006/nd/663-healy.html

    Any peer reviewed papers, Mike? Any world firsts?

  28. I’m talking about former Communist bloc topics. On a number of them, you’re quite ignorant.

    What you bring up doesn’t relate to the topics I comment on.

    To use a troll tactic of yours: prove it! (not that I really care)

    Link your purported great works, while noting that they don’t relate to the topics I discuss.

  29. GER O'BRIEN says:

    You said I achieved nothing of significance – I would say in my field I have done much more than you. Again, a simple question – have you published any double-blind peer-reviewed papers?

  30. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”What you bring up doesn’t relate to the topics I comment on. ”

    Certainly. What I do is far too grounded in empirical reality for you.

  31. The troll is busted once again, as he didn’t link any of his purported works; which in any event have nothing to do with the SL related topics I comment on.

    Has the troll ever been a panelist on the BBC and-or had his work picked up by Reuters, News Now and The Russia Journal (among other recognized sources)?

    Once again. note the troll’s displayed “logic” (stupidity). Upon being unable to successfully backup his idiotic views, he brings up purported achievements in another field; having nothing to do with the the former Communist bloc topics discussed at SL. My being able to likely out lift, out hit and out run him, has nothing to do with the the former Communist bloc topics I discuss.

    The poor boy is in need of some serious help.

  32. A correction:

    http://www.jatox.com/abstracts/2006/nd/663-healy.html

    Wuhpty do! I’ve had more former Communist bloc material picked up at numerous venues, dealing directly with such matter.

    The troll’s above linked work has NOTHING to do with such matter; thereby firmly substantiating what I’ve said about him.

    Let me add that unlike the troll, I don’t make a habit of stating idiotic comments on subject matter I know little about.

  33. The troll substantiates that having a Phd isn’t the end all for being intelligent in fields away from his/her study. Sometimes, the given Phd isn’t always so expert in some areas related (directly or indirectly) to their academic field of study.

    These rationally expressed views have been confirmed to me by Phds in fields involved with former Communist bloc studies. Brzezinski said as much during a recent CSPAN segment. Likewise with some other Phds, not known for sharing his views.

  34. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Mike, with respect, one scientific paper, double-blind peer reviewed, is worth far more than a ton of half-arsed articles picked up by blogs and newswires. And you were likely paid a very small fee for the tiny minority of those that made it to Reuters -I did mine pro-bono,as my research was extra on top of normal work. Again I ask you, have you ever been published in a peer-reviewed journal, eg an academic publication? And dont give me that crap about PhDs -its like your rubbish about not speaking Russian. And calm down that ranting tone – your dumb-ass pass degree isnt fooling anyone, no matter how loud you roar.
    Go get your PhD Mike, during which process you’ll have to have been published in an academic journal. Articles is crank blogs and the odd trip to Reuters wont get you that job, but a PhD will. You seem to have so much time on your hands -why dont you apply for research funding? I bet Sean Guillory has plenty of papers published.

    So, in academic published works the score is:
    Ger Clancy 1, Mike Averko 0.

    Unlike you, I dont pretend to be Linus Pauling.

  35. I can just see this idiot in a court of law being asked a case related question, having NOTHING to do with his stated academic background. Based on his pathetic performance here, he would be inclined to babble on about his stated achievements in a field not related to the hypothetical court case example.

    All the Phds in the world are no cure for his displayed idiocy.

    With his boyfriend Chris Doss gone, he now keeps a warped score, revealing his fantasy land.

    Once again:

    Let me add that unlike the troll, I don’t make a habit of stating idiotic comments on subject matter I know little about.

  36. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Let me add that unlike the troll, I don’t make a habit of stating idiotic comments on subject matter I know little about.”

    Again, this from the man who doesnt know what an aul is or when Chechen war 1 started. Yet he claims expertise on it, when he doesnt even have PUNTER standard expertise, never mind pundit level.

    Again, it begs the question – please validate your expertise with some academic background – have you ever been published in a double-blind, peer-reviewed academic journal, in your chosen field of the FSU?

    ” can just see this idiot in a court of law being asked a case related question, having NOTHING to do with his stated academic background.”

    As a matter of fact, I’ve had to appear as a witness many times in court, as I’ve done the confirmatory analytical work on around 400 positive cases. We’ve never lost a case.

  37. What you do outside the field of former Communist bloc studies isn’t pertinent to what I comment on. Mentioning such instances at this thread is a bit wacked since it’s totally unrelated to what SL typically discusses. Your not being able to grasp these very basic points reveal your intellectual limits.

    In point of fact, you were unable to support whatever your opposition is to my points about Chechnya. Not even close.

    Regarding this non-SL topic link you gave:

    http://www.jatox.com/abstracts/2006/nd/663-healy.html

    It lists numerous names besides your own. Is that the best you could do? Link your best solo article on the subject (not that I really care to know). Regardless, you haven’t done much if anything in terms of providing formal commentary on former Communist bloc issues.

    —————————————————————————

    Andy:

    Forgive me for getting back on topic. You note that Putin mentioned other territories and not Pridnestrovie (Trans-Dniester). There’s a likely reason for this. I’ve noticed other instances when Russian officials mention Abkhazia and South Ossetia with Pridnestrovie and Nagorno Karabakh omitted.

    In Moldova, Putin is more popular than the presidents of Moldova, Ukraine and the US ( http://www.tiraspoltimes.com/news/putin_gets_top_vote_in_moldova.html ). Russia ideally would like the whole former Moldavian SSR to come closer to it. The best game plan for that desire is probably to get Moldova and Pridnestrovie to agree to a loose confederation.

    When compared to Moldova, Putin is probably not as popular in Georgia. Hence, Russia understandably feels more at ease in supporting Abkhazia and South Ossetia over Pridnestrovie.

    As for Nagorno Karabakh, Armenia and Russia might appear to be better allies than Russia and Azerbaijan. On the other hand, Azerbaijan is a better geo-strategic prize over Armenia.

    Regarding Russia and the former Moldavian SSR see:

    http://www.eurasianhome.org/xml/t/expert.xml?lang=en&nic=expert&pid=1173

    http://www.tiraspoltimes.com/news/is_there_a_moscow_brokered_deal_for_moldova_and_pridnestrovie.html

  38. Andy:

    This link cites Putin in quotes mentioning Pridnestrovie during that press conference:

    http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/2008/02/shame-on-europeans.html

    The good chunk of the conference I saw didn’t include that particular segment.

    As for what he said, I’ve to respectfully disagree with the all or nothing approach on granting independence. For the most part, new nations are created out of parts of existng ones. Each disputed territory should be individually reviewed with historical and human rights circumstances given top priority.

  39. Constantly going completely off topic like yourself is wacked out. This venue dicusses former Communist bloc (particularly former Soviet) matter. What you’ve brought up is totally off topic. I take it that you ihaven’t written anything of solo significance on your stated field of expertise, which again has nothing to do with the crux of SL.

    Seeing how you carry on here, for all I know you’re a janitor/patient in a nut house. Not that I really care either way. Meantime, my background in terms of providing commentrary on former Communist bloc issues is far more established than what you’ve done in that area. Your knowledge and argumentative skills on such matter has proven to be extremely limited.

    My SL topic related background is clearly outlined in the hyperlink by my name. In addition, one of my pieces is cited in Wiki. Not that Wiki is known as the most academc of sources. The point is troll, I’ve achieved considerably more in this area than yourself. I also don’t carry on like a gutless coward by making misrepresentative comments at blogs.

    Note that your incessant emails go right in my junk box. I regularly correspond with media, academic and interested others on former Communist bloc matters. A good portion of them disagree with me. Unlike yourself, they don’t display troll like qualities.

    Are eXile and Limonov known as “academics”? What’s the stated basis of Limonov’s “proof”? Russia is definitely descended from Kieavn Rus.

    Once again, on Chechnya you failed to prove whatever points you were trying to make against what I’ve said.

  40. Yo Sh!-h–d (an honestly frank way of putting it):

    Like CD, you don’t display a particularly great aptitude for judging good prose. Over the course of time, you’ve sent numerous emails to me, with all of them going in the junk box for the plausibly stated reasons. The lone exception being your very first set. After which, it became clear that you’re a crank.

    In point of fact, a good number on my list reply positively, with few requesting off. Someone employed by the most major of world media networks just sent me a thank you note. Those kind of replies are far more noteworthy than your troll like outbursts. My lists are compiled and sent out no different than others like the Action Ukraine Report and the once active Untimely Thoughts.

    In your most recent troll of a post, you fail to detail how Limonov proves the point you said he made.

    On your obsession with the Phd: if you’re one and I’m not (the latter I can vouch for), than my earlier point is proven. There’re many successful non-Phd media, political and other figures, who are considered more worthy than some of those folks with a Phd. If I’m not mistaken: unlike yours truly, you don’t have any degree in a field directly related to former Communist bloc studies.

    You’ve no idea how much I make doing any number of things including journalism. It’s also none of your business. In a comparison of accomplishments, inclusive of your manner here, you’re in no sound position to judge me. Unlike myself, you’re the one who has lied.

  41. More lying on your part. You mailed me good deal more than 5 over the past year.

    CD carries on like a frustrated little jerk, who hasn’t written much in terms of original and informative analysis on his part. All of his posts at another SL thread were pure troll in content. His welcomed departure reveals a cowardly side to him. Like yourself, he typically engages in troll like activity. Upon being unable to successfully backup a given view, he will suddenly go off topic in a personal attack mode.

    Like a parakeet, you now repeat his hypocritically bogus “dirty little spammer” line. This coming from a one time “editor” of a list doing exactly the same.

    Since my last posting, A Muscovite based Russian sent me a kudos on a recent mailing of mine.

    Here’s why you’re an asshole. Unlike yourself, I provide constructive criticism. All you do is make blanket statements with no proof.

    Let’s see Doss and-or yourself apply for a column space at American Chronicle and write a substantive critique.

    What you do here and elsewhere falls in the pure horse shit category.

    Since you bring it up, I likely live far better than yourself. In any event, my personal life isn’t really relevant to the SL topics.

    It’s unfortunate that there’s a good deal of ineptitude out there. On the other hand, it can also serve as a basis for optimism.

    Your very last point is vintage cranking from you.

    For the most part, independent states are created from the territory of existing nations. Each independence claim is unique because the historical and human rights conditions (among other pertinent issues) aren’t the same.

    The parameters being set with an independent Kosovo confuse things, because there’re others having either a better independence case, or pretty much just as good of a claim.

  42. Your last set of comments about Kosovo reveals an LR like anti-Russian/anti-Serb twerp side to your persona.

    Besides Russia and Serbia, others like Spain, Cyprus as well as Bolton, Eagleburger, Rodman and Wedgwood have expressed well founded opposition to the declared independence, which many will not recognize.

  43. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Ahem. So, what do you do for a living?

  44. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Spamboy,

    stop spamming people, man!

    ”What you do here and elsewhere falls in the pure horse shit category.”
    Again, I’ve been in charge pf an Irish governemt lab, published scientifically and have lectured. What have you done apart from crank articles?
    Again, how many academic articles have you published in peer-reviewed journals? None. So why do you think you’re better than PL? There’s no evidence that you are -in fact the opposite.
    If you live so well, why are you ashamed to tell me what your job is?

    I’m delighted for Kosovo. Serbia have only themselves to blame. They gave up their right to govern Kosova when they commited ethnic cleansing there. Vyu ponimaetye?

  45. hayate says:

    When I read adolescent crap like this:

    GER O’BRIEN Says:
    February 16th, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    “Actually I’ve been published scientifically once, in the world’s most imporant toxicology journal, and the work I did was a world first”

    I am reminded of a couple of things I read some years ago:

    “Expertise in one field does not carry over into other fields. But experts often think so. The narrower their field of knowledge the more likely they are to think so.”

    &

    “Most “scientists” are bottle washers and button sorters.”

    The Russians have a term for creatures like that:

    ????? ????????

    Unfortunately these creatures exist in all countries….

  46. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Hey hayate(Roobit)! How’s Timely Thoughts going? Technicheskii perevod, da?:-)

    ”The Russians have a term for creatures like that:

    ????? ????????

    Unfortunately these creatures exist in all countries….”

    Funny, the Irish have a phrase that describes your ilk

    smearachan ruseach

    Means ”a miserable Russian bastard”
    🙂

    Without science, you would have no pc in front of you, no electricity and would likely be living in a cave.(though parts of St Petersburg are not much better, in fairness)
    I’m not entirely sure what Russocentric punditry has done for greater civilisation, but not a whole lot I daresay.

    So Mike, care to tell what you do for a living?

  47. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Most “scientists” are bottle washers and button sorters.”

    The Russians have a term for creatures like that:

    ????? ????????

    Unfortunately these creatures exist in all countries….”

    Said like a true crank, Roobit!) How’s Timely Thoughts? Technicheskii perevod, da?:-) Not tenough Great Russian Nationalist propoganda to use, eh? Thought Averko would be a bit more prolific for that fine site of yours!)

    The Irish have name for you too!
    ”smearachan ruiseach”

    And before you say anything rude, our language is around 3,000 years old, considerably older than Russian.

    As for scientists – well, you’d still be writing in caves and living in your own shit if it wasnt for science. I think it has contributed a bit more to the world than Russocentric punditry, somehow. As for bottle washing, we’re too busy teaching your kids for that.

    So, Mike, what do you do for a living?

  48. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Your last set of comments about Kosovo reveals an LR like anti-Russian/anti-Serb twerp side to your persona.”

    I’m just saying what I saw on tv. I know its a sad day for Serb-lovers like yourself, but Mike in all fairness Serbia were very naughty in 1999 and have deservedly lost the right to govern there – how you cant see that I simply dont understand. And no, criticising Russia and Serbia does not make me a Russophobe. As a matter of fact I was at a huge Russian party here at home the other night, and am still the worse for wear from it.

  49. GER O'BRIEN says:

    All insults aside Mike, how do you feel about Kosovo today? In fairness to you you’ve been writing about it for a very long time and you seem to have felt quite passionate about it. Do you feel sad, or gutted? I met quite a few Serbs in New Zealand and worked with two, and whilst they werent happy about it, they were resigned to losing Kosovo. They said Albanians had basically taken it over, starting about 100 years ago.

  50. Not sure what venue those hyperlinks are from as I choose to not open it. I like SL for its editorial consistency. Much unlike another venue that degenerated into a sewer – care in part to an overly partisan moderator/host.

    “Hayate” makes some good points. Try sticking to the topic, instead of diverting attention away to another unrelated field, as well as making troll like comments; having nothing or next to nothing to do with the involved subject matter.

    Derek Jeter is a superior baseball player to your claim of scientist. Derek Jeter doesn’t come close to matching my knowledge and analytical abilities on the subjects I discuss.

    The same is true of some of those involved with former Communist bloc studies. It’s impossible to be expert on everything.

    Regarding Kosovo, here’s what a Phd wrote:

    Kosovo or how Russia will be the loser…
    http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/50364

    Versus:

    Debunking the pro-Kosovo Independence Claims
    http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/52219

    I earnestly believe the latter to be the more scientifically applied and reasonable.

    Your partying with Russians doesn’t negate what you’ve said about Russians and Serbs. Views which contradict a good many of them, who follow the mentioned issues.

    You now say that you were repeating what you saw on TV. A look back indicates you saw and made an editorial comment. As for “naughty”, fighting terrorists can get naughty because of the nature of the adversary, stooping one to get low at their level. When compared to some other actions involving Anglo-Americans, Russians, Turks and Israelis, the Serbs weren’t so out of line for doing what they did in Kosovo. Much of it was either proven to be untrue or never established.

    See:

    The Absurdity of “Independent” Kosovo http://www.counterpunch.org/szamuely02152008.html

  51. Andy:

    Regarding an earlier set of points addressed to you, see:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7249317.stm

    Excerpt:

    “Whether Russia will use the Kosovo precedent as an argument that Abkhazia and South Ossetia deserve independence or secession from Georgia remains to be seen.”

    ****

    No mention of Pridnestrovie (Trans-Dniester) or Nagorno Karabakh.

    I mentioned Russia’s perception of those situations without noting the Western neolib/neocon sympathies. Nagorno Karabakh is easy to overlook because there’s a tendency to be more aloof about events farther away from Europe. In addition: whereas Saakashvili was seen as a kind of Western reared leader, Aliev and the Armenian leadership haven’t had that same standing. An honest accounting of the former Moldavian SSR (Moldova & Prodnestrovie) serves as a kick in the ass to those claiming that Kosovo is the “special case” for independence. Also note that the repackaged KLA are seen as Western oriented, unlike Pridnestrovie’s government. Making matters geo-politically unclear is the situation in Moldova. Its government appears to have its options a bit opened on how to proceed vis-à-vis Russia and the West. Like I said, sympathy for the Russian government in Moldova appears greater than what’s evident in Georgia, minus Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

  52. Some recent posts on the last mentioned matter:

    http://www.transdniestria.co.uk/

  53. Hayate:

    Oops! I missed your post here.

    Thought he was quoting you from another venue.

  54. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Not sure what link I posted actually. And hayate I’ve met before. He’s living on the outskirts of Petes. But anyway, the thrust of what I heard on tv is thst, politics aside, Kosovo is simply unable to function alone as a country, has virtually no economy and no proper functioning institutions to run a country. But what has to be noticed were the celebrations – people seemed genuinely happy on the streets, and maybe this day was due.
    What you’re saying about 1999 Mike goes against what every western media organ depicted; and accusing them all of anti-Serb bias I think is simply groundless. And Russia can make as much noise as it wants – it cant do a thing about it. And if our foreign minister, Dermot Ahern, as bright and as fair a guy as one could meet, says it should be independent, then I believe him, We have a lot of troops in there and I’m sure he’s very knowledgeable of the situation.

  55. On the last point, you aren’t. Moreover, there’re other knowledgeable people who think differently than him.

    Going by Western media, there’s conclusive proof showing how Albanian nationalist activity from 1974-89 prompted a Serb counter reply. Much of Western mass media in the 1990s and thereafter became skewed on the subject. This relates to the Serb adversaries being more effective at propaganda. Case in point, the $ contributions Albanian-American nationalists gave to some very key American politicians. The Serbs were nowhere near as effective.

    One example (there’re others) of the distortion follows. In the year and a half of Kosovo fighting before the NATO bombing, about 2 thousand died in fighting out of the province’s 2 million population. About 600 of the 2000 casualties were Serbs, who at the time were said to make up 10% of the population. Per capita wise, Serbs suffered considerably more. In any event, I understand that the cited Kosovo casualty rate is on par or less that found in some leading American cities like Washington DC. There was no “genocide” in Kosovo and the KLA are repackaged criminals.

    I don’t think that Hayate is Roobit. I suspect that “Poemless” might be MAB.

  56. Kosovo: A New Day of Infamy for a New Century http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=515

    Iraq and the Kosovo Connection http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12378

    —————————————————————————

    As for the earlier remark about seeing many happy Albanians: there were many happy Germans in the 1930s.

  57. BTW, I know my share of intelligently knowledgeable folks (in academia, government and military) who have been to Kosovo and share/support my fact based views on why that province shouldn’t be granted independence.

  58. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”On the last point, you aren’t. Moreover, there’re other knowledgeable people who think differently than him.”

    Yes, I’m sure there are plenty of Serb nationalists out there who disagree with him, at places like byzantinesacredartblog.com, etc. Meanwhile our troops are there, he’s got plenty of intelliegence info from on the ground, and I’m sure that he’s very well versed on the whole thing. Well, looks like its done now. Can you explain the following discrepancy:

    Chechnya pre 1999 – majority want (full)independence – Mike Averko says NO.

    Kosovo 2008 – majority want independence – Mike Averko says NO.

    PMR 2008 – majority (allegedly) want independence – Mike Averko says YES.

    Therefore = Slavs = OK, Others = NOT OK.

    Could you possibly explain your reasoning, without recourse to any historical precedents please(especially considering that the PMR ON ITS OWN has no historical precedent), and base it soley on logic? And please answer directly the question. No tangents. Tangents = not relevant.

  59. Another example of your asshole “logic” (trolling).

    I’m in a much better position to challenge your cited Irish authority than you’re in second guessing my fact based views, which you’ve yet to successfully challenge.

    Once again, others have been to Kosovo, who don’t share his view as quoted by you. They aren’t only “Serb nationalists”. Note how you omit the Albanian nationalists. Serbia minus Kosovo is far more democratic and multi-ethnic than the repackaged KLA crime ridden Kosovo.

    The “discrepancy” is with your troll like barbs. Chechnya in the present doesn’t want independence because of what happened twice in the 1990s when that republic had great autonomy. Like it or not, the situation there has stabilized since the end of the second Chechen war.

    The disingenuous slime ball troll demagogically overlooks those and other prior points that were raised.

    From the perspectives of human rights and history (previously detailed), Pridnestrovie has a much better case for independence than Kosovo. Note that the disingenuous slime ball troll has referred to Pridnestrovie as an illegal gangster state. In point of fact, it’s government and society are considerably more multi-ethnic, democratic and at peace than the repackaged crime ridden KLA regime in Kosovo.

  60. Simply put, the troll caters to anti-Slavic Orthodox Christian views, while professing not to be against them.

  61. GER O'BRIEN says:

    I can take it from the above rant that you have no logical counterargument to the points made above, da? Based purely on mathematics and nothing else, Kosovo is as entitled to independence as much as the PMR. You are unable to refute this simple fact. You claim knowledge you dont have. You bullshit on about third parties having ‘opinions’ that Kosovo shouldnt be independent but dont sunstantiate. Serbia engaged in ethnic cleansing in 1999 and lost all rights to control Kosovo. Just because you think thats not the case doesnt make it so:-) And the PMR has never existed as a state previously, and, using your own yardstick with Chechnya/Russia, should remain part of Moldova. In short, you’re a rabid pro-slav fraud, well at home at mad blogs like byzantinesacredart. Little wonder you are not published more widely.

    ”Simply put, the troll caters to anti-Slavic Orthodox Christian views, while professing not to be against them.”
    Mike, that’s a pretty deep accusation to make, and one I’m suprised you’d say, considering your own anti-semitic issues with Fr Johnson and Ethan Burger. One couldnt find someone as secular or less interested in religion than me. What church people go to has no relevance in my eyes, and I say that not in a politically correct way – I mean I actually dont give a shit how people choose to spend their sundays.

  62. Your idiotic comments were logically debunked. Only deceit and-or sheer stupidity could over look this fact.

    You’re one lying miserable piece of $__t.

    Kosovo was part of ancient Serbia and has been with Serbia since 1912. It was never an independent entity, or part of an independent Albanian state.

    Pridnestrovie was part of ancient Russia (Kievan Rus), the Russian Empire and USSR. It was never part of an independent Moldova. By force, Moldova only became part of the USSR in 1940. After which, the autonomous Pridnestrovie region was arbitrarily put into the Communist created Moldavian SSR. As previously mentioned, the human rights situation in Pridnestrovie is far better than what one finds in Kosovo.

    It’s a matter of fact that you’ve spoken negatively of Prodnestrovie, while showing sympathy for Kosovo independence.

    You’re a slimey little cyber punk, who has yet to formally contribute anything of noticeable substance.

    In comparison, I’ve done well for myself. Your ongoing half truths and lies can’t change that reality.

    The Byzabntine Sacred Art Blog is a nice offset to sites like Grerater Surbiton and the Srebrenica Genocide Blog.

  63. That’s Byzantine.

    Following up on a raised point: over the course of time I’ve provided links to insight from numerous sources, which aren’t “Serb nationalists”.

    So much for the related misrepresentative claim (among others) from the troll, who doesn’t use terms like “Albanian nationalists” “Bosniak nationalists”, or “Molodvan nationalists”.

  64. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”You’re a slimey little cyber punk, who has yet to formally contribute anything of noticeable substance”

    So your flacking for Fr Johnson’s anti-semitic blog wasnt slimey?) Shame on you Mike.

  65. Liar!

    That site can’t be legitimately construed as being bigoted to the degree of LR, which has been propped (among others) by RP, JRL, GV and eXile – you two faced piece of excrement.

    As is the case with every site that has carried my work, I don’t always agree with everything posted. I’m on record for corresponding this point to that site and others.

    He’s ideolgically opposed to Zionism, while clearly professing to not be anti-Semitic.

    Unlike youself, I don’t “flack” in a way that knowingly includes stating half truths and outright lies.

  66. Of related note, a pro-Israeli cyber activist of many years isn’t accusing me of being what the troll has suggestively stated:

    http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@987.DEjKa2X8CGy@.77480649/9011

  67. BTW, at SRB, a Maya (perhaps Haber, who earlier contrbuted to a post there) referred to Israel as a “racist little state”.

    At his blog, J. Otto Pohl made reference to: Zionist ethnic cleansing (or words closing matching that). Pohl’s blog is linked at numerous other blogs including SL.

    Regarding those two examples, some would consider such comments as “anti-Semitic”. I take to the view that by themselves, they aren’t, while being a bit on the hyperbolic side. I’d have to know more about the person/persons in question to make a firm value judgement on whether or not they’re anti-Jewish.

    No f______g troll will successfully defame me with half truths and outright lies.

  68. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Upset Mike? Well, you shouldnt accuse others of being ”anti” any religion, especially when you’ve appeared at and propped an anti-semitic website, as well as calling the man running it ”a great scholar”. I’m not anti-Serb or Russian at all – unlike you, I can see thru their bullshit. How could you see through it though? You’ve probably never been further from home than Staten Island or Manhattan.

  69. Once again, note how upon being debunked on a submitted point or points, the troll will flippantly bring up something else in a slimeball trying to play gotcha kind of way.

    Shame on those who encourage such activity against earnest input.

    Siberian Light is excluded from that point, because this venue hasn’t taken sides in a questionably subjective manner.

  70. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Mike, you referred to me as anti-Serb/anti Russian/anti Russian Orthodox Church. Dish out such statements, then expect a reply. You appearing at anti-semitic blog and calling Fr Johnson a great scholar is a matter of record.

  71. hayate says:

    Mike

    Apparently I hit a sore spot of the troll and it’s one of the gut freakshow. 😀

    Arguing with these zionist trolls is a waste of time. There’s nothing there to argue with, anyway. Used the term “banksters” once and one of these trolls accused me of anti-semitism. 😀 I found ignoring them leaves them hanging out there, looking like a nicked cottager in a park loo, which in is probably….

  72. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Apparently I hit a sore spot of the troll and it’s one of the gut freakshow.”

    Ah, no, Roobit. You think you hit a spot. No quite. But as long as you think so, thats the main thing:-) Speaking of freakshows, how’s Timely Thoughts? I know I dont like to start my day without a dose of your wisdom. I would have thought Mike could produce enough articles for you, but I guess he has enough crank contracts with byzantine sacred art, Serbianna and the TTT. He probably has too much to do producing rubbish for them instead. By the way, isnt it getting late in St Petes. Dont you have your baked-potato job to get up for in the morning?

    ”I found ignoring them leaves them hanging out there, looking like a nicked cottager in a park loo, which in is probably….”

    I have no idea what this gibberish means. Which is probably a good thing. Your big problem Roobit is you’ve no Moscow registration. I know it hurts, being a provincial. Get over it. Next time I’m in Moscow I’ll let you stay a weekend and take you to McDonalds.

  73. Hayate, why use “Zionists” when he’s Irish and a scumbag (the two don’t necessarily always go hand in hand)?

    As for the scumbag’s comments at this thread, Matthew Johnson (at least to to my knowledge) never came close to writing something like this:

    “You can’t necessarily trust a Jew, but you can always trust a Jew to be a Jew.”

    On the other hand, the JRL, RP, PM and eXile propped LR stated the following:

    “You can’t necessarily trust a Russian, but you can always trust a Russian to be a Russian.”

    I don’t take kindly to bigots. I’ve had enough discussiion with Dr. Johnson to feel comfortable that he’s no bigot unlike the JRL, RP, PM and eXile propped LR. Note how he didn’t reply to the examples relating to SRB and J. Otto Pohl.

    The scumbag troll has apparently never formally written anything of substance on his own which hasn’t appeared at a blog. Serbianna and TTT are commendable news and commentary sources unlike the scumbag troll posting crap about them. Those sources are just two of several venues where my commentary has appeared.

    Another kudos for the Byzantine Sacred Art Blog.

  74. My formal commentary (articles) typically refrain from a word like scumbag. In this instance, the usage is quite appropriate, given how the fraud in question has carried on at some other venues besides this one.

  75. Regarding the earlier discussed topic of Kosovo:

    NATO’s Kosovo Colony
    http://counterpunch.com/johnstone02182008.html

  76. GER O'BRIEN says:

    I’d like to withdraw my remarks above insinuating that Mike Averko is anti-semitic. Though in response to a comment calling me anti-ROC, they were still out of order.

  77. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ” when he’s Irish and a scumbag (the two don’t necessarily always go hand in hand)?”

    Is there an apology forthcoming for that outrageous racist remark?

  78. For clarity sake: it’s possible to be a Jew and non-Zionist, or a non-Jew and Zionist. I find the usage of Zionist to be at times a bit on the polemical side.

    The attempt to defame me previously failed because of its sheer fallacy:

    http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@85.wWIfayG2Cbw@.77480649/7538

    As for an “apology” just mailed to me as a subject text – uh ah! There has been a string of mis-informative venom launched against me. I’m earnestly addressing the many half truths and fallacies out there. It’ll take more than just a simple apology.

    The gall to slur venues like TTT and Serbianna, as some other more established sources have done some un-cool things over the course of time. TTT and Serbianna are far from perfect. Ditto the BBC, NYT and yes JRL; the latter of which has been given a good deal of carte blanche for all the wrong reasons.

    —————————————————————————

    “when he’s Irish and a scumbag (the two don’t necessarily always go hand in hand)?”

    “Is there an apology forthcoming for that outrageous racist remark?”

    ****

    No, because I make clear that the two don’t necessarily go hand in hand,
    rather than suggestively stating differently.

    For clarity sake, I’ll add that scumbags are evident among all groups, including Russians and Serbs.

    I hsven’t been the one launching troll attacks at this and other venues. I’m therefore reluctant to suddenly assume that such manner will stop by the party that has been a main instigator of this behavior.

  79. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”As for an “apology” just mailed to me as a subject text – uh ah!”

    That is what most adults do when they believe they have said something wrong. If, at 45 years of age, you are unable to recognise that, then frankly its your loss. I was reared to admit and apologise when wrong. I see nothing wrong with it. And it wasnt an apology for anything other than what was stated. But it was genuine. If you are unable to accept this, then it is only your loss. And by the way no attempt was made to defame you – you defamed me, calling me anti-ROC. I’m not anti-ROC, cos frankly I couldnt care less about the ROC. Nice architecture though. And you seem to be entirely ignorant of the concept of private emails – unless I’m mistaken I have quite a few of yours, many of them quite unflattering to a good number of people. Do I publicise them? No.

  80. Second submission. Pardon if duplicate.

    How you’ve chosen to carry on over the course of time isn’t “adult”.

    It’s a bit naive, if not childish, to suddenly think such manner dissipates with a simple apology.

    In point of fact, you’ve taken positions that are clearly anti-Serb and anti-Russian; as in going against the views of most Russians and Serbs, who follow the discussed issues.

    You’re by no means the only one.

    I stopped exchanging emails with you awhile back when it became clear that you’re a crank. Private emails are ideally kept private.

    I’ve my share of private emails from people who you know, who say some interesting (put mildly) things. On the personal side, I make it a point to keep such exchanges confidential, because to do differently sets off an automatic red flag for others.

    I didn’t violate any confidentiality in that I didn’t specify where the email in question was from and the stated content was what was posted at this thread. I didn’t open that email. I just saw the subject text.

  81. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ” stopped exchanging emails with you awhile back when it became clear that you’re a crank. Private emails are ideally kept private”

    Well, you havent kept this one private, so perhaps I’ll have to make public some of your more, ahem ‘colourful’ emails? Actually you’d have a lot of expalaining to do to a good many people.

    But fret not. I am not you, and your emails are safe with me.

    ”It’s a bit naive, if not childish, to suddenly think such manner dissipates with a simple apology.”

    I apologised for remarks made. I believe that to be an adult reaction. Clearly this is below you – again, your loss.

  82. Second submission. Pardon if duplicated.

    Not at all and I didn’t violate any personal confidentiality.

    You’ve a track record of trolling, inclusive of “apologies”.

    I can honestly say that I don’t carry on in such a manner.

  83. Last night’s PBS “NewsHour” show had a solo one on one with pro-Kosovo independence enthusiast Frank Wisner – who along with Bernard Gwertzman recently insulted the Russian position to not recognize Kosovo’s independence. In the lead up to that one on one, there was a background feature of Kosovo’s recent history. Upon discussing the 1989 “Serb crackdown”, no mention was made on why that was done. Specifically, the enhanced Albanian nationalist violence during the Tito imposed autonomy years from 1974-89.

    A number of fact based thoughts were omitted from that segment. In the year and a half of Kosovo fighting before the NATO bombing, about 2 thousand people died in fighting out of the province? 2 million population. About 600 of the 2000 casualties were Serbs, who at the time were said to make up 10% of the population. Per capita wise, Serbs suffered considerably more. In any event, I understand that the cited Kosovo casualty rate is on par or less that found in some leading American cities like Washington DC. There was no ?enocide” in Kosovo and the KLA are essentially repackaged criminals.

    I’m an open minded person, who makes it a point to read and listen to other views. For my own health’s sake, I turned off the PBS NewsHour segment, when it came time for the Wisner one on one. I see how too much one sided propaganda has subconsciously duped many intelligent people, who don’t prioritize their time to take a more critical look at the Kosovo topic. I suspect that at one time or another we’ve all been subconsciously duped on other topics. The same PBS station recently aired a segment featuring pro-KLA enthusiast Soren Jessen-Petersen. It’s not as if there’s a lack of intelligent perspective available against Kosovo’s independence.

  84. GER O'BRIEN says:

    I refer you to this article in Wikipedia, which cites, amoung others, the New York Times and the BBC(both news organs you mention favourably in relations to your own appearances there)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C4%8Dak_incident

    At one point in the article, even RUSSIA is accusing Serbia of massacre:
    ”On January 29, the Contact Group of countries with an interest in Yugoslavia (Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Russia and the United States) issued a joint statement deploring “the massacre of Kosovo Albanians at Ra?ak which resulted in several thousand people fleeing their homes””

    No, you may not want to accept this, but Serbia quite clearly massacred in Kosovo, and in my view (and that of France, UK, USA, and even little Ireland, who has troops there) Serbia has lots its right to rule, and quite correctly so. Denying that Srebrenica, The Siege of Sarajevo and Kosovo 1998-99 happened doesnt mean that its true. Serbia was the lead nation in the Balkans and its behaviour as such has been a disgrace. Also no less than Voijuslav Kostinica has conceded that genocide occured there. Russia’s biggest problem are not the unresloved countries, its that she has a bloody nose since sunday and Russia cannot bear that. Putin could not care less what happens to Serbia. Bear in mind this is the same Russia, who along with China, has prevented UN security council resolutions to deal with Burma. It is hardly a bastion of fair-mindedness.

    I have no doubt that both sides were at it in 1999, but it does not excuse Serbia, the parent nation, from its obligations. Serbia has, since time began practically, had ideas well above its station for such a little, insignificant country. It is high time the Serbs realised what they are – a small country no more important than Portugal or Iceland or Bulgaria or even Ireland for that matter. If the Serbs had concentrated on getting their economic act together since 1993 like Slovenia has, maybe now they’d be an EU nation istead of an international pariah.

  85. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Sorry for the typos -pressed submit before checking over.

  86. The BBC and NYT have their fault lines, regardless of my appearances there. In recent history, the Turks, Russians, Americans and Israelis have committed “massacres” as well.

    If I’m not mistaken, Racak was far less a massacre than Jenin and some other instances elsewhere not involving Serbs. If you review that incident more closely, there’s evidence indicating a tampered presentation in the form of bodies likely taken elsewhere and compiled in one spot. Also at issue is how they were killed.

    Albanian nationalist terrorism against non-Albanians in Kosovo is real and to ignore it smacks of a very clear anti-Serb bias. UNSC 1244 contradicts the fraudulent claim that Serbia lost its right to Kosovo. Moreover, post 1999 NATO bombing Serbia minus Kosovo is far more democratic and multi-ethically tolerant than the repackaged KLA gang in Kosovo.

    In conjunction to what you say of Serbia, your comments about Russia are indicative of a heavy anti-Russian/anti-Serb bias. Spain, Cyprus, Greece, Romania, Slovakia, Bulgaria and a number of other countries reject the faulty Kosovo independence claim.

    Srebrenica and Sarajevo involve Bosnia and not Kosovo. Those two areas in Bosnia saw much carnage on the part of pro-Izetbegovic forces. To deny this, is absurd.

    Terms like “little insignificant little country” are quite revealing of how bullies selectively treat others.

    Regarding your point about Slovenia having a higher standard of living than Serbia as a suggested justification of better morality: Serbia minus Kosovo is economically much better off, more multi-ethnically tolerant and democratic than the repackaged KLA group in Kosovo.

    This correspondence was recently forwarded to me:

    108 Bodies found in 1999 season of forensic investigation by the Spanish team
    420 Albanians (mostly Serbian state employees, i.e. “loyalists”) killed since Kfor/KLA occupation began (Kfor figure June 99 through March 00)

    1041 Non-Albanians killed since Kfor/KLA occupation began (number cited in http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/09/03/stifgneur02004.html)*

    680 Bodies found in 2000 season of forensic investigation

    4,249 Total Victims

    2.67% deduct percentage applied to deaths from natural causes (from Spanish team’s data)

    4,135 Sub-Total Died as result of War

    4,025 Sub-Total excluding Yugoslav soldiers

    875 less estimated KLA deaths ( high figure is 1,500 low figure is 250)

    3,150 Sub-Total Non-Combatants

    2,467 Killed by NATO/KLA (breakdown below)

    22 Klecka KLA possibly under Agim Ceku (cited as part of 2000 investigation in http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/09/03/stifgneur02004.html)*

    34 Glodjane KLA possibly under Ramush (cited as part of 2000 investigation in http://www.sunday- times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/09/03/stifgneur02004.html)*

    50 Orahovac (cited as part of 2000 investigation in http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/09/03/stifgneur02004.html)*

    68 Markovac KLA under Commander Remi ( cited as part of Remi’s forced expulsion of 160,000 civilians on BBC program and in J. Steele Guardian article July 1999)

    97 Istok ( Died as a result of 3 days of NATO bombing, Spanish Interview )

    39 Kacanik (Albanian loyalists killed by 162nd UCK brigade in mid March; before bombing)

    45 Kotlina (Albanian loyalists killed by 162nd UCK brigade before bombing)

    70 Velika Kusa ( out of 74 found )

    30 Djakovica ( loyalist town, heavily bombed by NATO under KLA direction)

    10 Ljubenic ( mixed Albanian-Roma loyalist village)

    30 Pec ( out of 65 found, 15 before bombing, mostly wealthly anti-UCK killed, possibly under Ramush’es or Drini’s orders)

    7 Kosovo Polje ( mixed population loyalist town)

    20 Pec bus (Albanians killed by NATO bombs at crossroad)

    75 Bedded down for the night

    84 Korisa Convoy

    5 Pristina (T. Watson witnessed a number of Albanians killed by bombs)

    140 Dragoban Cemetery (Non-Albanian)

    166 Dragoban Cemetery (Albanians)

    4 Rugova (4 hijacked by UCK, 20 additional UCK fighters KIA’d when KLA dropped grenade in hijacked van)

    4 Decani (4 members of loyalist militia)

    5 Gologovac (killed by UCK in Jan/Feb)

    1 Suad Qorraj (allegedly by Ramush in June 1999; cf Sunday Observer, Sept 10, 2000, by Nick Wood “US ‘covered up’ for Kosovo Ally” )

    420 Albanians killed since Kfor/KLA occupation began (Kfor number June 99 through March 00; 400 murdered)

    1041 Non-Albanians killed since Kfor/KLA occupation began (number cited in http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/09/03/stifgneur02004.html)*

    683 Sub-Total Potential victims of Yugoslav or NATO/KLA forces

    78% Percent of Non-Combatants killed by NATO/KLA action

    22% Percent of Non-Combatants killed either by NATO/KLA or by Yugoslav forces

    SOURCE: http://www.decani.yunet.com/victims.html

    * http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/09/03/stifgneur02004.html has been removed from the Sunday Times website. The same article may be viewed at: http://www.balkanpeace.org/hed/archive/sept00/hed545.shtml

    We are also making the entire text of the article available below.

    —————————————————————————

    THE SUNDAY TIMES (UK), Sunday, September 3, 2000 EUROPE
    KLA faces trials for war crimes on Serbs

    Inquiry turns on Albanians

    Tom Walker, Diplomatic Correspondent

    INTERNATIONAL war crimes investigators are for the first time focusing on atrocities against Serbian civilians that were committed by the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA).

    Sources close to prosecutors in the Hague confirmed last week that its forensic experts were checking five sites where war crimes were allegedly carried out by members of the KLA. Their findings could lead to a request to Nato’s Kfor troops to arrest several senior figures in the new Kosovo Albanian elite, including possibly Hashim Thaci, the KLA’s former political leader, or Ramush Haridinaj, one of his main political rivals.

    United Nations sources have already revealed that Agim Ceku, the guerrillas’ former commander, may be the subject of a secret “sealed” indictment for his activities while fighting for the Croatian army against the Serbs. Like Thaci and Haridinaj, Ceku, who now heads the Kosovo Protection Corps, the local defence force, has denied wrong-doing.

    The investigation could radically alter the international perception of the conflict, in which Albanians were seen as the largely innocent victims of Serbian aggression. After a year of growing concern about hundreds of revenge killings of Serbs by Albanians in the province, there are signs that the public relations pendulum may begin to swing the Serbs’ way.

    The investigations by the International War Crimes Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia are among its most secretive, with officials fearing retaliation by the Albanians. “The operations of the KLA clearly involved many activities we should scrutinise,” said one Hague official.

    “There’s a real problem in unravelling their cell structure, but we may well end up pointing the finger at senior figures. The difficulty then will be persuading any Nato nation to arrest them.”

    All five sites were discovered by the Serbian police as they regained territory lost to the KLA in the summer of 1998. As Albanian villages were being destroyed in the Serbian police offensives that grabbed the international media spotlight, the plight of the rural Serbian peasantry was often ignored and dozens of villagers and farmers were abducted, tortured and left in mass graves.

    Three of the areas under investigation are thought to be the villages of Klecka and Glodjane and the town of Orahovac.

    The killings in Klecka have been linked to Thaci, who now heads the Democratic party of Kosovo. The Belgrade media made great play of the discovery in August 1998 of what it claimed were 22 Serbian bodies in a lime kiln in Klecka.

    Glodjane, further west in the Decane area bordering Albania, was fiercely contested by the Serbs and Albanians. In September 1998 the Serbian media centre in Pristina claimed that the bodies of 34 people had been found in a canal there. They were a mixture of Serbian farmers, some gypsies and Albanians suspected of being collaborators. The local commander at the time was Haradinaj, now head of the Alliance for the Future of Kosovo.

    In Orahovac, an ancient Balkan maze of cobbled streets and mixed ethnicities, at least 50 Serbs were abducted by the KLA in July 1998, never to be seen again. In the autumn hundreds of angry Serbs marched six miles through the hills to Dragobilj, the local KLA headquarters and one of the few places where Islamic mujaheddin fighters were seen. The protest failed to persuade the KLA to give any details of the missing Serbs.

    Most inquiries made so far have been met with silence and few witnesses are thought likely to be brave enough to reveal the brutality of the KLA.

    One former Albanian commander, who now lives in the West, told The Sunday Times that he saw two Serbian policemen tied to the backs of Jeeps and dragged to their deaths during the fighting around Glodjane. He said he had no intention of talking to the war crimes prosecutors and wished to forget Kosovo altogether.

    The Serbs, too, are unlikely to co-operate with the Hague because Belgrade refuses to recognise the tribunal. Milosevic and Milan Milutinovic, the Serbian president, are both indicted by the tribunal, and Milosevic is believed to have offered a bolthole to Radovan Karadzic, the most wanted suspect of the Bosnian conflict.

    “We’re not permitted to make any interviews in Serbia proper and that is a considerable hindrance,” said Paul Risley, spokesman for Carla Del Ponte, the tribunal’s senior prosecutor.

    It is also not clear whether investigations into the KLA’s activities can be extended into the period after Nato entered Kosovo in June 1999. Authorities in Belgrade claim there have been 1,041 murders in the province since then – with 910 of the victims being Serbs or Montenegrins. In the most recent attacks on Serbs, an eight-year-old child was killed by a hit-and-run driver near the town of Lipljan last month, and a hand grenade was lobbed into a basketball court injuring 10 children north of Pristina. A farmer aged 80 was machine-gunned to death in the nearby village of Crkvna Vodica while he was tending his cattle.

    The claims of genocide being made by the Albanians at Belgrade two years ago are now being thrown back at them, but the war crimes tribunal remains dispassionate. “We’re not seeing genocide at the moment, but severe human rights violations. There is no evidence that any group wants to annihilate the Serbs rather than just force them out,” said an official.

  87. GER O'BRIEN says:

    The first series of figures, if genuine, are totally damning of the KLA and I no in way take their side on that issue. But the fact remains that these events appear to have taken place AFTER Serb atrocities and the subsequent Serb defeat by NATO. Two wrongs of course dont make a right but the Albanians, having been the victims, found themselves now in charge, and responded badly. But that in no way takes away what Serbia did nor does it excuse Serbia. Serbia is the lead nation and as such is responsible for this whole mess. Its started the fun and games.

    The second part of your comment does indeed highlight KLA/Albanian atrocities. But it ignores system Serb misbehaviour that instigated these troubles, sanctioned by the government in Belgrade. The behaviour of the KLA was and is unnaceptable too Mike, but it does not absolve Serbia’s role as the aggressor. Serbian nationalism is the cause of all the trouble, like it or not. And all of this ignores a very simple democratic principle – the vast majority of the population of Kosovo now want it to be at the very least separate from Serbia. And who could blame them?

    ”In conjunction to what you say of Serbia, your comments about Russia are indicative of a heavy anti-Russian/anti-Serb bias.”
    ”Terms like “little insignificant little country” are quite revealing of how bullies selectively treat others.”

    Serbia is what it is – a troublemaker and the chief cause of the Yugoslav wars 1991-1995. To deny this is to deny generally accepted fact. Yes, I know, Slovenia and Croatia participated too, but the Kosovo Pole speech by Milosevic kicked off the fun and games.(No-one should dare to beat you!)

    As for insignificance, I myself am from a small country that has had its fair share of grief, much of it self-caused. But our government has never sanctioned or indeed ordered genocide against an ethnic group in one of its own regions. It is high time Serbia got its act together and started to behave like a modern European nation – it hasnt too far to look. Slovenia got on with their lives and now they have presidency of the EU, instead of being dismembered by NATO and the EU. Spot the difference?
    As for Russia, they have nothing to gain from all this save losing face. But it is already lost. Russia is not a major power any greater than France or the UK and has little in its arsenal anymore save a UNSC veto. And my own view is Russia would be better off getting the 20% of her population under the poverty line out of 3rd world conditions than worrying about Serbia. Ever been to a Russian village Mike? The alcoholics can and do drink acetone. Again, priorities first.

  88. Kindly reply to the points raised in this artcile, which was recently posted at this thread:

    http://counterpunch.com/johnstone02182008.html

    Note that it was previously posted here. It agrees with the earlier issued article in the hyperlink at my name.

    Slovenia is 90% Slovenian, with no border issues. BTW, that “civilized” country had much protest in discussing whether a mosque should be built in its capital where none exist.

    Your point about Russia applies to the US, which should spend more time on its society and less on engaging in questionable foreign policy ventures.

    Note that some relatively high profile Americans in Lawrence Eagleburger, John Bolton, Ruth Wedgwood, Peter Rodman and Pat Buchanan, among others are against Kosovo’s independence.

    Socioeconomically, the Serbs have their act togther much better than the Kosovo Albanians.

    Serbia never sanctioned or issued “genocide”. “Troublemaker” as in they would’ve won without foreign intervention against them. In point of fact, Serbia can’t be legitimtaely accused of starting the wars in former Yugo. Plenty of well documented blame to go all around.

    Unlike yourself, I study this matter closely. It includes a full as possible accounting from all sides.

    Milosevic’s Kosovo Polje address was butchered from what it actually said. A point noted in the linked Counterpunch article. He actually advocated the opposite of the butchered skewing of it.

    You’re being way too judgmental in your delivery. A manner that many find offensive. You don’t know this because there has been a prevailing arrogance among a good many in the West.

    This link leads to a recent Buchanan article:

    http://www.antiwar.com

    http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org

  89. Rather: these links. Pardon any other grammar points. Late for a gym workout. Will check back later.

  90. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Alright Mike, fair enough. I’ve read the piece, am suprised, and am thinking again about my views. Maybe the Serbs have been wronged.

  91. hayate says:

    Mike

    “why use “Zionists” when he’s Irish and a scumbag”

    It’s obvious he is. There are zionists in Ireland just there are in alabama. You sure he’s Irish, anyway? His writing seems more american midwest used car salesman in style. 😀 I used some common British slang and he didn’t know what it meant. Most of these trolls I’ve encountered were pretending to be something they were not. And almost every one turned out to be zionist, no matter what their cultural background or pretended political stripe was. Perhaps a lot of them are out of work actors between auditions? 😀 I noticed the Kosovo related threads at gut currently are full of these spambots, doing exactly what this monkey is doing here. Some of the foamers even came across as reasonable people on other subjects prior and are now completely OTT regarding Kosovo, even though they have no personal connection with anything Yugoslavian. One wonders why an Irish “scientist” would feel so strongly about Kosovo that he would spend all this time trolling blogs and talkboards like an adolescent freshman. You’ll note he’s posted nothing of substance. Nothing.

    You on the other hand posted some decent stuff. Great links you posted above.

    BTW, wont argue with you about the scumbag label, that’s obviously 100% accurate. 😀

  92. GER O'BRIEN says:

    I had a long comment in reply to the above, but its obviously the work of a sockpuppet, the IP of which I know. Pity really.

  93. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”One wonders why an Irish “scientist” would feel so strongly about Kosovo that he would spend all this time trolling blogs and talkboards like an adolescent freshman. You’ll note he’s posted nothing of substance. Nothing. ”

    My my, this style is so familiar…looks like those emails might have to become public after all….

  94. Firmalar says:

    “As previously noted, the post-Soviet score of attacking other countries is: USA 2 – Russia 0?

    True, but the post-Soviet score of attacking one’s own country = USA 0 – 1 Russia.

    : )))

  95. Hayate:

    He thinks you’re Roobit, a St. Pete based Russian. I don’t think that’s the case.

    The “Zionists” are far from monolithic and I don’t see them as a collective threat as one-two other political groupings starting with neo.

    GO:

    What IP and “sock puppet”?

    I’m trying to keep this on topic and not personal.

    Not sure what you mean by releasing emails. Be careful about that. What comes around, goes around is a saying. When doing that, trust is lost. There’s so much I could do with released emails to prove my point. I don’t because I’ve enough integrity and realpolitik (probably more of the latter) to know that it’s counterproductive.

    Good to see some open mindedness on your part.

  96. Firmalar:

    You didn’t post the reply to that.

    Typical mass media tact of showing bias for one side over the other.

  97. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Well the asshole needs his head examined if he thinks I’m a Zionist. If there’s a few hundred Jews in Ireland, thats all. They are totally off our radar, completely. My grandfather fought in WWII for the Brits and buried them at Belsen. He hardly say a word for 45 years afterward. So much as I dislike anti-semitism, that is the only tenuous connection I have with them. But I do believe entirely in their right to have a nation – I dont think that makes me a Zionist. Funny how the asshole is in New York though…..guess there are some people with shitty english in NY who think Ireland is possesed of Zionists. Funny that!)

    ”When doing that, trust is lost.”
    well, I could say the same about you telling the world I’d emailed you. Bad form.

    I read that article but its hard to know what to believe. It contradicts completely a version of events portrayed by a BBC book I read many years ago called ‘The Death Of Yugoslavia’. Admittedly it was 10 years ago when I was a student, but I recall distinctly a completely different spin on Kosovo Pole. Its hard to know really. I’m not as certain now that Kosovo is due this after all, but who gives a shit what any of us think? Its happening anyway.

  98. Or when you said on line that CD mentioned to you that I email “attacks” on others. In my instance, I didn’t discuss the content.

    CD is full of shit on that point. Nothing wrong with firm criticism as opposed to off topic trolling. Tell you one thing, I don’t perform in extremely managed (censored) situations and I directly challenge the people I’m critiquing – full name (no “db” kind of shit).

    On my neo v. zi point, neocons can be considered “Zionists” in the sense that all of ’em are pro-Israeli. However, most pro-israelis aren’t neocons.

    As for the neolibs, they have different priorities among themselves. Is Fouad Ajami a Zionist. If anything, he’s perhaps more of an opportunist.

    I’m right in what I’ve said about former Yugo. There’re direct translations of what Milosevic said at Kosovo Polje. The English language mass media coverage on that topic has often been extremely misleading. Galling to consider, given how many don’t speak out against it while bashing the wrongs (real and exaggerated) about Russian media.

    I now what the f___k I’m talking about, which is uncomforting to some high placed folks.

  99. That’s: know.

    Been a long day.

  100. “The Death of Yugoslavia” if I recall correctly was written by Laura Silber, who has been employed by Soros. She’s very Holbrooke/Clark/Albright oriented.

    She most certainly wouldn’t get the better of me in a panel discussion.

  101. You thought Hayate was me?

    If so, the paranoia bit is quite ironic when directed at me.

  102. hayate says:

    Mike

    “He thinks you’re Roobit, a St. Pete based Russian.”

    I thought the kid was baby talking. 😀

    I’d love to be in St. P., but maybe a bit later in the year after it warms up a bit.

    troll

    “But I do believe entirely in their right to have a nation”

    That makes you a zionist. You lot continually misrepresent the term and equate zionism wholly with being Jewish. Probably 80-90% of all zionists are not Jewish. There are 40-50 million zionists in the usa, less than 10 million are Jewish. Zionism basicly means one supports the state of israel to be a state where Jewish people run the show.

    A bit of advice. The first to seriously quote a wikipedia entry as fact in a debate loses. There is no appeal.

    If you are what you say you are, there’s a chance you’re more than a mere button sorter and have somewhat of an analytical mind. Use it. Look at the subject from multiple points of view, don’t just read one source and assume it’s gospel. Especially something from as biased a source as the bbc. They are no more authorative than cnn, fox or your local paper. You wouldn’t rely upon a source like the bbc to get accurate information about things in the field of work you are in, would you? You’d rely on a specialist periodical or newsletter. So why would you think some news rag would be any more accurate about anything else? They are not, none of them are.

  103. Agree with a good deal said in the last post. BBC has its moments of even handed commentary. In other instances, its displayed biases confirm a point SG made about there not being such things as complete objectivity (not that he was being original in making that observation).

    It’s okay to have an opinion, as long as it takes into consideration the other perspectives and displays knowledge of the given situation. I know my share of Phds who aren’t so great at that, when compared to some non-Phds.

    Hayate:

    Know my share of Jews in America who went thru an anti-Zionist phase on account of what they felt was very one sided media coverage given to Israel. Israel has done some not so nice things like others including the US, Turkey, Russia and Serbia, as well as the respective adversaries of each. I try to be balanced about such things. Being balanced doesn’t assume everything to be the same. There’re degrees of good and bad to be found everywhere.

    Before it became fashionable, I was a two state solution advocate. As an undergrad in the early 1980s, I got blasted for advocating the Soviet proposed Mideast conference, with the idea of the two state solution.

    Is the two state solution view Zionist?

  104. GERR O'BRIEN says:

    ”A bit of advice. The first to seriously quote a wikipedia entry as fact in a debate loses. There is no appeal”

    I know, I know. We dont allow students to use it at all, and I shouldnt have, but was stuck for info. In any event, the piece wasnt anti-Serb though. Mike – its not the same Death of Yugoslavia – I’m almost certain it wasnt written by her, I’m sure it was written by an Englishman. But hold on a second – that book wasnt my only source. I’m also talking about years of British, Irish and US media, all of whom have blamed the Serbs. And I believe them. I do not see what material interest that the UK or the US has in the Balkans, save for expense and aggravation. I simply do not believe that we’ve all been lied to and the Serbs are innocent. This kind of stuff about US hegemony etc reminds me of all the internet crap about Freemasons, Jewish banking etc – people convinced there are ulteriour motives in everything that the UK and the US does. I’ve no doubt it is the case sometimes, but not in this one. It seems to me the Balkans has been a massive pain in the arse for NATO and the EU. And Ireland, who is neutral and is the lead peacekeeping force in Kosovo, is supporting its independence. Sorry gentlemen, but there is a powerful case against what you are saying. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but that’s the consensus out there.

    ”You wouldn’t rely upon a source like the bbc to get accurate information about things in the field of work you are in, would you? You’d rely on a specialist periodical or newsletter. ”
    No I wouldnt, but I believe the BBC is possibly the best news org in the world, bar none. I simply do not see what motivation they would have for misrepresenting the Serbs. Again, we are in the realms of crackpot theory. And yes, I know, the BBC has fucked up, but I dont believe it has fucked all of nigh on 17 years of Yugoslav coverage. And apart from anything else, scientific papers can only be ‘relied upon’ if the work can be repeated and the results obstained the same as in the paper. Maybe hayate you’d like to list the peer-reviewed papers and academic journals you are replying upon for your own opinions? Perhaps I can find enlightenment there.

    ”If you are what you say you are, there’s a chance you’re more than a mere button sorter and have somewhat of an analytical mind.”
    I am indeed. But as Mike has said, its not all that relevant to this. In this case I am just a punter. And indeed I havent studied Yugoslavia in great depth.

    Does supporting the existence of an Israeli state make one a Zionist? I wasnt aware. Yes, I do believe they are entitled to a state and think that the two-state view mentioned by Mike is the right way – of course Palestine should have one as well. The Jews have been wronged the world over, even in Ireland, for many years, and I believe the least they are entitled to is a place of their own. The fact that they get up off their arse and do well for themselves is a trait to be commended, not belittled, if you’ll pardon the outrageous stereotyping.

  105. db says:

    The first to seriously quote a wikipedia entry as fact in a debate loses.

    That’s funny coming from someone who quotes Heinlein.

  106. Here’s the bias: you will suggest Russia to be biased in a way you wouldn’t consider on some others. But those others are. Putting aside the wanton attacks against me, there’re the recent Szamuely and Johnstone articles in Counterpunch, along with credible journalists like Binder, Laughland and other Western non-Orthodox Christian others.

    Ther Serb adversaries lobbied a heck of a lot better than themselves. It’s no coincidence that the Vatican and Germany were gung ho in seeking to get Slovenia and Croatia recognized ASAP. German media at times is especially anti-Serb. This has to do with good numbers of Croats and Turks living in Germany, combined with the Serbs being a pesky opponent of the Germans in two world wars. In the US, Albanian-American nationalists outspent the Serbs in “contributions” (bribes) to the American body politic (influential folks like McCain, Dole, Engel, the late Lantos and others). In Bosnia, Western journos were typically situated in Izetbegovic strongholds. You don’t think residing with one of the combatants might’ve skewed the reporting?

    A scientist looks at all the plausible data and makes a reasoned view.

    That the BBC is probably the best overall news source in the world doesn’t negate it being off at times. Media at large has a negative rap with many.

    I see this thread is being read by others. This venue is a kind of samizdat.

  107. Second attempt. Pardon if duplicated.

    A follow-up on how foreign policy can get screwed up.

    Last week, there was a US congressional hearing on whether Roger Clemens took HGH up the ass.

    After that hearing, a NY sports talk radio host observed how some of the involved law makers either acted overly partisan and-or clearly weren’t paying attention to all of the hearing related matter on record. In conjunction to that point, he wondered aloud how often these same folks screw up more important issues that many of us don’t pay much attention to.

    Factored into that thought is how foreign policy can really get whacked out of line when some well organized special interest groups get the upper hand on Capital Hill. There’re at least two sides to a given conflict. Giving one side the upper hand skews the analytical process.

  108. GERR O'BRIEN says:

    ”A scientist looks at all the plausible data and makes a reasoned view.

    That the BBC is probably the best overall news source in the world doesn’t negate it being off at times. Media at large has a negative rap with many.

    Which is what I’m doing Mike. But I find it very hard to believe the BBC would screw up deliberately for 17 years.

    ”Last week, there was a US congressional hearing on whether Roger Clemens took HGH up the ass.”
    Oh yes. What a piece of news. Nobody has yet developed a satisfactory method for the detection and confirmation of the administration of HGH to athletes. Its a fascinating, amazing story. This year will be the Olympics of HGH use, and the next will be the one of HGH detection. Damn and blast gene cloning and recombinant synthesis!

  109. “Which is what I’m doing Mike. But I find it very hard to believe the BBC would screw up deliberately for 17 years.”

    ****

    Repeating on an earlier point, the BBC coverage ranges from objective to not so objective. The latter issue skews the process.

    Several examples. To repeat some of them:

    – Milosevic’s Kosovo Polje address getting butchered from what he actually said.

    – Talking about a “Serb crackdown” in 1989, without mentioning what led to it (enhanced Albanian nationalist terrorism during the Tito imposed autonomy period Kosovo had from 74-89).

    – The willingness to readily accept inflated casualty figures that were later proven wrong.

    – Who the BBC has employed as in house consultants. For example, the BBC has used a Brit based Croat with the last name of Cvic (pardon misspell of his last name). His views can be seen as Croat nationalist. During Tudjman’s funeral, he claimed that said Croat leader wasn’t as bad as Milosevic or Lukashenko. HELLO! Luka isn’t on record for making the kind of bigoted statements as Tudjman. Luka hasn’t been involved in any military conflict. As for Slobo, he’s also not on record for having made bigoted comments like Tudjman. Slobo had more might than Tudjman. In war, the side having the grerater might often inflicts the greater casualties. For objectivity sake, the BBC should’ve employed in house someone like Trifkovic as an offset to Cvic.

  110. GERR O'BRIEN says:

    Mike,
    the points you make are in fairness perfectly valid, but at the same time they dont account for the BBC’s overiding reporting that much of the fault for the Yugoslav wars is with Serbia. You have highlighted incidents which do cast doubt on their objectivity, but these are isolated and do not carry enough weight for one to term the BBC’s entire coverage as biased. I have no doubt Serbia is not the only one to blame here, but the fact is the BBC and practically every western news agency has painted the same picture and the majority of defendants facing trial in the Hague are Serb. I am aware that Kosovo fell to pieces because of Albanian nationalism when autonomous, but we are now in a situation that, for right or wrong reasons, there is a vast Albanian majority there and the Serbs did start the fun and games there in 1998. And havent you heard the Serb saying ”we’d do anything to keep Kosovo except live there”. Nu shto?
    As Slobo’s speech, there are different views on what was said, and again I dont believe the BBC had any material interest in misrepresenting his comments.

  111. The debate heats up increasingly … the amount of “r’s” doubled in “Ger O’Brien” …

    When the “r’s” tripple, and it reads “Gerrr O’Brien”, it’s time to wear a bulletproof vest, I suppose 😛

    Don’t be angrrry at eachother … pluezzzze ! 😉

  112. Andy says:

    C’mon – Gerrrrrr’s a pussycat really… 😉

  113. A perfect summation of the prevailing biases. “Valid” points, but not enough for some. Meantime, for others, they’re very crystal clear and not so “isolated” to assume that the overall coverage has been fair.

    Go over the given examples again. I’d also note how when featured, Serb sympathizing advocates seem to be generally given a comparatively much harder time at a number of English language mass media organs; when compared to their adversaries. Kind of like the manner periodically displayed at some of these threads.

    Note the earlier characterization of “cranky” Serb blogs, that have been comparatively censored by GV, relative to anti-Serb blogs like the Srebrenica Genocide Blog and Greater Surbiton; which have very questionable (put mildly) commentary.

    http://www.serbianna.com/columns/averko/007.shtml

    http://beware-srebrenica-genocide-blog.blogspot.com/

    The ICTY has displayed a NATO kangaroo court like manner.

    http://mwcnews.net/content/view/5349/26/

    http://www.inthenationalinterest.com/Articles/Vol3Issue28/Vol3Issue28LettersPFV.html

    http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Apr2007/hermanpr0407.html

    It’s difficult to settle in a place where you’re met with violence and no funding for such a resettlement.

    Mllosevic’s 1989 Kosovo Polje address was flat out misrepresented as there’s ample on line translation of it available. To continuously say otherwise is a flat out LIE.

    http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/milospeech.htm

  114. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Mllosevic’s 1989 Kosovo Polje address was flat out misrepresented as there’s ample on line translation of it available. To continuously say otherwise is a flat out LIE.”

    Mike I’m just telling you what I read. Were you there? Do you have a transcript in Serbo-Croat?

    ”The ICTY has displayed a NATO kangaroo court like manner.”
    I daresay its not perfect, then again most legal processes are not. But kangaroo court? We’re in the realms of Freemason and Jewish banking conspiracies with such a statement. Mike I do have respect for your beliefs about this, but I simply dont share them.

  115. The transcripts of what was and wasn’t said at Kosovo Polje in 1989 are firmly established and can be easily accessed. Furthermore, my own Serbo-Croat contacts are quite knowledgeable and objective about such matter.

    The flaws of the ICTY are quite clear as well. I’ve provided very sufficient analysis on that and other matters.

    It’s difficult to “respect” someone stating a scientist background, who consistently overlookk the presented facts and fact based opinions; while clinging to very questionable biases, based on half truths and ouytright lies.

  116. A non-orthodox Christian sent me this note from Paris:

    I have been in Paris France on business for 1 week and will return to ** next week. Although this Kosovo issue is really serious, I simply can’t believe BBC here on my French TV in the hotel… They go on and on about Russia as if Khodorkovsky, or Berezovsky are saints… I was very surprised to see some program with Neil Bush walking around London with Boris… And the image they make of Putin is sick…

    So, I wonder, should Russia pump in some NGO money into Vermont? I’m being sarcastic… Vermont was really close to splitting off of the US… I little more foreign money and maybe they could breach 50%… Then have Serbia recognize Vermont… I’m being silly, but so is this Kosovo stuff.

    I think geo politics is now at a flat line, a time when the US may have influence on others but at the same time when other can start screwing with the same horse power with American (internal) interests…

    This is my first time in Paris, not bad… but there a many homeless… and gypsies begging all over the place…

  117. As per that last note about Russia pumping in NGO money: simply put, some do the propaganda route more regularly and efficiently than others.

    Such a policy subconsciously influences many.

    Successful propaganda isn’t so blatant. It lets some air out of the tires for a smoother ride, which serves to cover any combination of bumpy rode, miserably wheel aligned vehicle or dented wheel.

  118. Some interesting and agreeable points in this piece:

    http://www.rusjournal.com/thomas.html

  119. hayate says:

    db Says:
    February 20th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    “That’s funny coming from someone who quotes Heinlein.”

    Like most american southerners, Heinlein built up a store of folk wisdom sayings. Some were useful, some were like you. But like most american southerners, his problem came in the application of that wisdon.

    Verstehen? I can simplify the above for you, if it’s too complicated.

  120. Touche.

    ****

    Contrary to some spinsters, there’s plenty of valid, fact based commentary and raw facts at this site:

    http://tiraspoltimes.com

    Pridnestroive and not Kosovo is the better example of a “special case” for independence.

    Rather than study and debate this point, some choose diversion, via petty attacks – some of which are rather McCarthyite.

  121. An encore for those who didn’t get the gist:

    The ICTY has displayed a NATO kangaroo court like manner.

    http://mwcnews.net/content/view/5349/26/

    http://www.inthenationalinterest.com/Articles/Vol3Issue28/Vol3Issue28LettersPFV.html

    http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Apr2007/hermanpr0407.html

    It’s difficult to settle in a place where you’re met with violence and no funding for such a resettlement.

    Mllosevic’s 1989 Kosovo Polje address was flat out misrepresented as there’s ample on line translation of it available. To continuously say otherwise is a flat out LIE.

    http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/milospeech.htm

  122. “Verstehen? I can simplify the above for you, if it’s too complicated.”

    It must read “Verstanden”, not “Verstehen”. Verstanden ?

  123. db says:

    I can simplify the above for you…

    Yes, please do explain quite what Heinlein’s “problem” was and how it “came in the application of that wisdon [sic].”

  124. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”It’s difficult to “respect” someone stating a scientist background, who consistently overlookk the presented facts and fact based opinions; while clinging to very questionable biases, based on half truths and ouytright lies.”
    Its even more difficult to respect someone who would rather be spit-roasted alive than reveal what their day job is. I have revealed mine; you have not yours. Why? Pourquoi? Pochemu? Mike, you’re starting to get personal again when I have tried not to. I may have to return to normal service if you continue this bullying tone, which is about as effective with me as pissing into the wind. Care to reveal the day job Mike? So drop the bullying tone Mike. If you were anyone of significance you’d tell us the day job.

    Now, I have looked around for Milosevic’s speech and have found that the majority of websites carrying it do agree with your version of events. This has two logical conclusions:
    (1) That you are correct and that he was misquoted
    (2)That his detractor couldnt be arsed posting their version of the speech
    I was inclined to believe your version though, however, this paragraph is interesting:

    ”The Kosovo heroism has been inspiring our creativity for six centuries [words indistinct] and does not allow us to forget that at one time we were [word indistinct] brave and [word indistinct], one of the few that entered the battle undefeated.

    Six centuries later, now, (?we are engaged in) battles and (?quarrels). They are not armed battles, although such things cannot be excluded yet. However, regardless of what kind of (?battles) they are, they cannot be won without resolve, bravery and sacrifice, without the noble qualities that were present here in the field of Kosovo in the days past.”

    Hate speech? Incitement of tension? I think so. All through the speech there is reference to battle and to Serbian disunity and also to the prevalence of enemies. Now admittedly the speech makes plenty of reference to democracy and equality of peoples, but dont all dictator speeches make such references?
    Also, again I refer to the BBC:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4819388.stm
    which indeed references the ‘nobody should dare to beat you’ speech.

    What all this boils down to is very simple – do I believe marginal websites loaded with Serb supporters and do I believe that the BBC has deliberately and conciously victimised the Serbs unjustly for nearly 20 years? Sorry, I believe what the BBC says over those websites, any day of the week. No contest.

    ”An encore for those who didn’t get the gist:

    The ICTY has displayed a NATO kangaroo court like manner.”

    Oh, I get the gist alright, marginal crank websites loaded with agendas defending war criminals like Karadic. No, Mike, the ICTY is not a kangaroo court.

    As for the TTT, the less said about it the better. Its funding is a mystery, it peddles independence in the cheapest of manner at every opportunity, it has been comprehensively discredited by The Economist and does not allow foreign subscriptions, only available in the PMR at selected locations for the no doubt enormous English-speaking expat population.

  125. Andy says:

    “Its even more difficult to respect someone who would rather be spit-roasted alive than reveal what their day job is. I have revealed mine; you have not yours. Why? Pourquoi? Pochemu?”

    I’m not sure what Mike’s view is, but I certainly wouldn’t tell the world what my day job is.

    There are lots of perfectly valid reasons for people not wanting to discuss what they do to earn a crust – some are in politically sensitive jobs, some have employers that frown on people putting any views in print, some work as janitors and worry that people would sneer at them because of their ‘lowly’ position.

    The bottom line, as always, is to judge people’s views by what they actually write. It’s usually far more accurate than making a judgement based on occupation.

  126. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”There are lots of perfectly valid reasons for people not wanting to discuss what they do to earn a crust – some are in politically sensitive jobs, some have employers that frown on people putting any views in print, some work as janitors and worry that people would sneer at them because of their ‘lowly’ position.”

    Nobody is sneering at all. But Mike spends a good portion of his own existence sending emails to various people criticising the work and or/achievements of others, most notably people whose jobs it seems he would like himself. If one considers oneself a ‘critic’, then surely one has 9-5 work experience in that field? Bear in mind also that Mike props himself repeatedly as an expert in these areas, which neither I nor indeed most commenters do. Against this background I think its entirely reasonable to ask what his occupation is. I’m not claiming to be Arhenius or Bohr, but Mike Averko regularily makes statements like ‘I should be a guest on RT’ or ‘talented others need to be (ahem) brought on board’ in reference to himself. Make remarks like this and of course there are going to be questions. And if you look at his above statement:

    ”It’s difficult to “respect” someone stating a scientist background, who consistently overlookk the presented facts and fact based opinions;”

    I think my reply to this is not entirely unreasonable. By his own admission he hasnt published any academic papers, which is surely the most appropriate measure of expertise.

  127. Andy says:

    Nobody is sneering at all.

    Just to clarify, I didn’t mean to imply that you were – I know you better than that. Just that some people might be reluctant to reveal information because they worry that others might.

    I think you’re right when it comes to getting paid gigs as an ‘expert’ – on tv, for example. Then, it really does help if you can substantiate your experience (a day job in the field is helpful – although certainly not always necessary).

    But, when it comes to discussions here, for example, or on any other internet fora, I think its best just to judge the words on the page. I’m sure there are plenty of nuts out there who work professionally in their chosen field of nuttiness…

    By the way – how are you guys going with your bid to break the record for most comments on a Siberian Light post ever?

  128. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Just to clarify, I didn’t mean to imply that you were – I know you better than that. Just that some people might be reluctant to reveal information because they worry that others might.”

    Indeed, and I apologise myself for the above comment, the tone of which was poor and perhaps uncalled for. And indeed in my own field I have only one paper published, which is a bad return for someone 33 years old. Then again I’ve never worked full time in research, though I will soon if I can just squeeze a few quid from the mandarins in Dublin.

    ”But, when it comes to discussions here, for example, or on any other internet fora, I think its best just to judge the words on the page. I’m sure there are plenty of nuts out there who work professionally in their chosen field of nuttiness…”

    This is true, and in fairness to Mike, I withdraw the questions about his day-job. Its true we’re only all amateurs here, and I am being unduly harsh and in reality have no expertise in FSU matters, save for having been there for a good length of time and speaking just enough of the language to score without paying. Its amaing how the Russian yazuyk flows so freely after a few bottles of Starii Melnik)

    As for the comments record, gosh, I hope not, as much of what’s been written hasnt been pretty. But I cant let go of the BBC -i was reared on Newsnight, and find it difficult nigh impossible to believe that they would victimise the Serbs undeservedly so pointedly and for so long. It just does not add up. Maybe I am naive. But I’m not too sure.

  129. As previously noted, I’ve in fact been paid for some of my SL topic related work. In no way am I obligated to discuss the exact specifics on line. Show me other professionals who do such. My participation at this and other venues is an honestly direct approach at interacting with different ideas. It’s a darn shame that this gets corrupted thorough no fault of my own.

    At this venue, I’m not obligated to discuss my personal life (non-SL topic related employment history included) at the repeated request of someone who carries on like an asshole (a frankly honest way of putting it).

    In troll like manner, the self described “scientist” in another unrelated SL field continuously second guesses, insults and lies about my background and views. Shame on the so called professionals going along with such manner. “Bring back the Irishman” (quoted from another venue that became an overly partisan sewer).

    My email lists have been an overall hit in discussing views that often get shortsighted. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with them. Those asking off, get taken off. The Action Ukraine Report, the once active Untimely Thoughts and other lists correspond similarly.

    A general note: established troll like manner isn’t welcomed in my in box. Such correspondences get directed into the junk folder and aren’t opened. It’s therefore a waste of time to send such material. I regularly correspond with people having different views from my own. Such individuals don’t engage in troll like manner.

    On the ICTY, these three sources include four people: a respected legal scholar, a respected analyst and respected journalist, to go along with my posted/published note at a mainstream DC based think tank source.

    http://mwcnews.net/content/view/5349/26/

    http://www.inthenationalinterest.com/Articles/Vol3Issue28/Vol3Issue28LettersPFV.html

    http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Apr2007/hermanpr0407.html

    The ICTY has some of the same imperfections found in the legal systems of Hilter era Germany and Stalin ruled USSR – a dominant political agenda circumventing reality.

    As this and other substantively clear sites reveal, Milosevic’s 1989 Kosovo Polje address was butchered from what it actually stated.

    http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/milospeech.htm

    To continuously suggest differently is a LIE.

    Much of what’s here in this note a repeat. This has to do with a troll who follows the Nazi concept of the big lie – repeat something over and over again, with the intent that fallacy becomes truth.

    I deal with analyzing SL topic related subject matter. When I post supporting documentation it shouldn’t be considered off base to get direct replies, rather than rehashing faulty innuendo.

  130. Andy:

    When it comes to English language Russia blogs, your blog is number one in terms of an overall rating of:

    – Design
    – Frequency, quality and diversity of posts
    – Fairness in the host/moderator not taking an overly partisan stance towards commenters
    – The quality level of some (especially those which have been troll free)of the SL post related discussions
    – Number of apparent recorded hits and their diversity (I’m not clear on how such stats are accurately compiled)

  131. For anyone thinking that I was harsh – uh ah!

    The badgering troll like manner gainst me has included a series of “apologies”, followed by the rehashed troll like manner.

    Such behavior shouldn’t be permitted to linger on. Others would choose to leave altogether, rather than put up with such antics. A kind of censorship for sure.

    I don’t like the idea of buckling down to terrorism.

  132. Andy,

    you wrote: “But, when it comes to discussions here, for example, or on any other internet fora, I think its best just to judge the words on the page.”

    Objection, Your Honour !

    Let’s assume, just for a split second, your blog wouldn’t be about Russia but about a particular cancerous disease. Would you still raise that point ?

    Wouldn’t you agree, that there’s a tremendous difference between a commentator writing …

    “This illness is incurable and those suffering from it will die a painful and horrible death. Period.” …

    but then admitting his name is Al Bundy, selling shoes at WalMart, and a commentator claiming to be …

    “A London based medical analyst and hospital critic, whose commentary and expertise has been published in dozens of medical periodicals and all over the internet”.

    This “medical analyst and hospital critic” owes his audience the explanations a) which education he has, b) where he has acquired his professional experiences and c) in which occupational field he is active.

    Why ? Because some poor individual reading him might take his “commentary and expertise” for serious, might stop taking the medication and might stop seeing his doctor because a “medical analyst and hospital critic, published in dozens of medical periodicals and all over the internet” writes he’ll die after all, regardless what medication the individual takes and which doctor the individual sees.

    Back to Russia-blogging …

    Certainly, nobody will suffer serious consequences or even die when reading an “analyst and critic” in the comment-section of a blog, but when quantity (sic!) is being mistaken for quality, some might be mislead to believe there’s truth to what this omnipresent person writes and draw false conculsions.

    I have two kids in school, another one to be in school in a couple of years, and at times I am horrified when checking their homework. Why ? Because they picked up some stuff published in Wikipedia and elsewhere on the internet, by some self-proclaimed “expert” with absolutely no education or practice.

    And regarding Mike’s inevitable reply … “what subtantial stuff of yours has been published when and where” … here’s the answer … NONE.

    BUT … I neither claim to be a pundit, an expert, a critic or an analyst … what I write is purely my insignificant personal oppinion without any claim being the sole source or truth and wisdom. And I will also readily answer the question regarding what I do for my living. It’s nothing I have to be ashamed about.

  133. I’m not ashamed of what I do for a living as well Heribert.

    At issue are some trolls who misrepresent things. Andy addressed that specific well.

    If you’ve a problem with my SL topic related analysis, then directly deal with it; instead of posting gibberish about me abroad.

    To get to the level of the troll: I once again note how he didn’t link a solo/non-blog posted article of his on the purported non-SL topic area of his claimed expertise (not that I really care).

    Regarding how I’m referred to in the SL topic related areas:

    http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/9060-3.cfm

    Other fairly prominent venues do likewise. Once again: if you’ve a problem with my SL topic related analysis, then directly deal with it; instead of posting gibberish about me abroad.

    Like it or not, some intelligent Phds involved in the area of former Communist bloc issues like my work. This includes some non-Phd professionally active media folks.

  134. It’s unfortusnte that the blogosphere is corrupted by crank like activity in the form of anonymous bigots and dip s___t comments that wouldn’t be considered at a number of more responsible venues.

    Like to or not – I’ll continue advocating the qualitative route.

  135. Pardon misspell of unfortunate.

  136. Mike …

    “If you’ve a problem with my SL topic related analysis, then directly deal with it; instead of posting gibberish about me abroad.”

    Just to be clear on this …

    I’m not posting anything about you anywhere, besides on my own blog. This happened twice within the past 12 months. And what I write on my blog is written in German, a language you obiously are not able to speak or write. So how can you tell it’s “gibberish” ?

    I think its not adequate to hijack other people’s blog by flooding their comment sections … so Mike Averko is usually not a topic on the blogs I visit. The only blogs I regularly encounter Mike Averko is Siberian Light and Sean’s Russia Blog … and I neither envy Andy nor Sean for having such a passionate contributer to their comment section, writing (at times) up to 90 % of all comments.

    But as a sign of peace and friendship, I offer you to discuss the “Kosovo Independence” . I guess you still have my e-mail.

  137. Ever here of translation? You posted crap about me at two other venues besides your own.

    If you don’t like my input, then don’t bother reading it. Intelligent others like it. I wrote a book review at Siberian Light which was well received.

    I haven’t been frequenting SRB becaise the host/moderator displayed (among other IMO negatives) overly partisan interuptions. I consider that venue to have been “hijacked”. I take the adult route by not viewing it.

    I’ve a right to speak out against half truths and lies made against me.

    As for participating at your venue, you previously blocked my posts and followed with misrepresenative comments about me. Besides, there’s a GUT International venue that I frequent.

  138. That’s: hear of translation.

  139. Said GUT venue:

    http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@560.Sm1lanqpFEz@.77480649/8706

    Again on “hijacking”: if anything, that has been done by others. One of them came on at a recent SL thread to post nothing but crank comments. Those in the know recognize the cowardly way he withdrew altogether, after being outted.

    I prefer not dealing with such manner. On the other hand, that type of terrorism shouldn’t be successfully implemented against the earnest input of others.

  140. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”To get to the level of the troll: I once again note how he didn’t link a solo/non-blog posted article of his on the purported non-SL topic area of his claimed expertise (not that I really care).”

    Sometimes Mike I dont think you actually understand what a scientific, or indeed any type of research paper is. In very few cases scientific papers have only one author, because there is huge work involved. Secondly, my one article was published in the most important journal in its field. You can try to denigrate all you want, but the only one looking stupid is you. Secondly, and I’ve asked this before, have you ever been published in double-blind peer-reviewed academic journal? No. The reason is very simple. You are BONE LAZY and couldnt be bothered learning Russian or Serbo-Croat which would have been necessary for you to gather data. Therefore all your theories are based on translated material, which is at the mercy of the translator both in terms of style and indeed whether or not something gets translated at all. Your arch foe Peter Lavelle has an armful of papers published. What leads you to believe you are his superior in the field of Russia matters? What divine intellect do you posses that exempts you from doing all the things others have to do to become called experts? The answer is you dont have that intellect. You are not an expert. You are an amateur. And no, like Heribert, i dont claim expertise, i dont even claim it in my own field. But in they eyes of my peers what I’ve done is light years ahead of what you’ve done in yours. Light years.
    Unlike you, I’m going the hard route to ‘expertise’ -publishing papers and professional work experience. When I’m about 60 and have 30 papers published, then I might indulge myself that I’m well versed, not 45 and with no papers published.

    And before you start a troll barrage, you wouldnt leave it alone Mike, not me. And after that, are you going to deal with my views on Slobo? Or have you surrendered that too?

    Heribert
    spasibo bolshoe. Byul ochen smeshnoi!) And Al Bundy….gosh, that was a great tv show. Thanks for reminding me of it.

    ”some might be mislead to believe there’s truth to what this omnipresent person writes and draw false conculsions.”
    That is the heart of the matter. And that is where questions of proven expertise come in. God Forbid anyone believes half the bullshit being peddled. Most of it is, as I’ve said before, like Jewish banking or Freemason conspiracy theories. Madness.

  141. One other thing Heribert:

    If my input is generating the most interest among commenters, it’s only appropriate that I reply to those varied sources. Hence, it looks like I talk the most.

    On a major media aired panel discussion, I spoke the most. It was quite appropriate, seeing how the three other panelists had more in agreement with each other than me – with my views reflecting a more mainstream Russian perspective.

  142. I’m ignoring the troll’s last set of comments directed at me because of other obligations, and it has long gotten to the point where my points have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

    I did catch a “scientific” quip, which is a likely butchering of its actual meaning. His manner here and elsewhere as reference points.

    A not so intelligent individual, who has the gall to challenge my abilities when he has comparatively achieved next to nothing on matter dealing with former Communist bloc analysis.

    A shlub who thinks that watching/listenting to the BBC makes his absurd points valid.

    The way he glosses over the academic links debunking his silly notions reveal that he can’t be much of a scientist.

    Where’re those solo/non blog articles of his in his purported field of expertise (not that I really care to know if they exist)?

    What a hypocrite!

  143. Someone mailed me his recent rehashed garbage that was previously addressed and soundly debunked.

    As MAB and others prove, knowledge of a language doesn’t make an individual proficient at everthything related to the country in question. A number of intelligent Russians, Serbs and others appreciate my work.

    Any number of propped experts aren’t proficient in the language of the country they comment on. Once again, plenty of fluent speakers of a language, who are ignorant of the history and politics of the country in question.

    This misrable $___T of a being glosses over Andy’s point about directly dealing with what an individual has said in their commentary.

    Vintage trolling from a most despicable being.

    The miserable bastard talks about “lazy”. I’ve done more research and analytical work on SL related topics than himself. He can’t come up with sufficient evidence contradicting what I’ve said. Hence, his repeated trolling.

  144. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Are you just thick or something? I linked the journal I was published in. It wasnt a blog.

    http://www.jatox.com/abstracts/2006/nd/663-healy.html

    How many times do I have to explain that scientific research papers are almost invariably produced by more than one person?

    And again, please answer: What academic papers have you published? Please answer directly, no tangents. And again, I’m not sounding off. I am simply illustrating that you, who call yourself an expert, have not published ONE SINGLE WORD in an academic journal. Not one. Zero. Nichego. Nol. Rien.

    ”I’m ignoring the troll’s last set of comments directed at me because of other obligations, and it has long gotten to the point where my points have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.”

    Yes, back to the day-job, whatever that is. BBC vs blogs/cranks/defenders of war criminals? No contest. Thumped again Mike.

  145. You’re stupid for sure.

    A solo article of yours.

    What else have you done chump?

    You’re a little stinking cyber punk of a fraud.

    You once again lie with faulty innuendo that was previously addressed at this thread in an intelligently reasonable manner. Rather than reply accordingly, you repeat the troll bit.

  146. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”The miserable bastard talks about “lazy”. I’ve done more research and analytical work on SL related topics than himself. He can’t come up with sufficient evidence contradicting what I’ve said. Hence, his repeated trolling”

    You’re as lazy as sin. 45 years of age without a word of Russian. Your mouth is writing cheques that your credibility cant cash. You havent a word of original research published, juts opinions got from second-hand sources. Give it up. You’re no pundit.

    ”Someone mailed me his recent rehashed garbage that was previously addressed and soundly debunked.”

    No, I quoted from Milosevics speech and challenged your points. You have no response. And however emailed you must have something better to do with their life. Your problem now Averko is you’re in a losing quagmire you cant get out of quickly enough.

  147. Andy says:

    Part of me wants to close the comments on this thread, but another part of me is finding immense enjoyment from the creativity and effort you are putting into these insults. An art-form in themselves.

  148. You didn’t correctly quote that address of Milosevic’s. You LIE again unlike yours truly.

    You brag about being in a field which doesn’t relate to SL topics.

    You’ve been unable to link a non blog/solo article of yours in that claimed field of expertise.

    Using your own criteria, your input is of little, if any substantive value.

    Let’s see you get a column at an America Chronicle like venue and successfully challenge my fact based analysis.

    What you do here indicates that you’re an intellectually challenged person with a rather severe personal disorder.

  149. Make that: personality disorder.

    On to some pleasant things.

  150. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”A solo article of yours.

    What else have you done chump?

    You’re a little stinking cyber punk of a fraud.”

    Clearly I have published more articles in academic journals than you have. I’m 33, you’re 45, and unlike you claim no expertise yet in my field. But I’m still way ahead of you. Blogs and internet ”newspapers” like the TT are not academic journals Mike. Go learn Russian, publish some papers. You’ll have more cred that way:-)

  151. Well, I haven’t seen a single translation software or online translator to deliver satisfying results. These results still require quite a lot of guessing … and guessing doesn’t really help when trying to understand a text. Particularly in languages which are pretty complex, like German, French and Russian. But what the heck Mike, you knew this already.

  152. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Mike the Journal Of Analytical Toxicology is a real magazine, an academic publication. You’ve never been published in print AT ALL, never mind in an academic journal. Forget blogs. And websites. I mean real publications and not ”letters to the editor”. Blogs for amateurs, Mike. Letters to the editor dont count. Again, where is your academic work? Did you even get anything published when you did your undergrad thesis? I know this never happens usually, but considering you think yourself the Grand Master of Russian analysis, I thought maybe you were some sort of undergrad prodigy.

    ”On to some pleasant things”
    There are few things sweeter than a white flag. You’ve only yourself to blame. Unable to defend your Serb crap, you resorted to insults. You got back wat you started. LO-SER!)

  153. Andy says:

    Heribert wrote: “Objection, Your Honour !” and some other stuff.

    I take your point about the medical analogy – on the internet, anyone can set up shop and pretend (often quite convincingly) to be an expert. In the kind of example you cite, there are very real and sometimes very immediate dangers for people who stumble upon and can’t tell the dumbass from the doctor.

    However, in a case like this where are (were?) discussing Kosovo (or is it Russia? Sometimes I forget), there isn’t really any danger. Really, we’re a bunch of opinionated amateurs telling the world what we think.

    If anyone with any real power to change things in Kosovo / in Russia / with Mike’s employment status ever read this blog and acted upon someone’s considered comment – well, frankly, I’d eat my hat.

  154. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Part of me wants to close the comments on this thread, but another part of me is finding immense enjoyment from the creativity and effort you are putting into these insults. An art-form in themselves.”

    Apologies Andy. In fairness I stuck the hand out ealier today to Mike, in a comment at 2.08pm, and it wasnt reciprocated. Its hard to take this bullshit lying down.

    ”The badgering troll like manner gainst me has included a series of “apologies”, followed by the rehashed troll like manner.”
    Indeed you’ll never get one again and regret you hadnt the basic courtesy to accept it. Cos from now on I’m not letting any of your bullshit pass.

  155. My meeting has been delayed.

    Andy, find a more reasonable peace plan than the one advocated in the article at the link by my name. I drafted that one up myself back in August.

    Here’s an earnest challenge. I provided a link regarding what Milosevic actually said at Kosovo Polje. On line there’re other venues confirming the truth over the misrepresentation. Yet, someone has the gall to say that I’m still wrong.

    At http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org – one can post comments below Srdja Trifkovic’s articles. He’s a known analyst who would’nt benefit from lying on this matter.

    Ask him about the 1989 Kosovo Polje address.

    Another source can be reached by posting at: http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com

    I regret the pond scum antics here. I’m not the initiator of them and have consistently shown a willingness to keep it on topic and academic. I’ll not bow down to terrorism.

  156. That’s: wouldn’t.

    Andy:

    At this thread, Kosovo can be considered fair game unlike some other issues because it’s mentioned in the above post.

    I make a sincere effort at trying to stay on topic.

    It’s regretful how some consistently try to go off topic, inclusive of insults and negative misrepresenations. It’s very wrong to allow such manner to linger on. Such conditions only serve to further provoke a not so nice situation.

  157. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Andy, find a more reasonable peace plan than the one advocated in the article at the link by my name. I drafted that one up myself back in August.”
    But that wasnt the point. The point was that Serbia instigated ethnic cleansing in 1998-99 and lost the right to govern the region cos of that. I also dealt with Slobo’s speech, which any reasoned being can see is a call to arms. Anyone who can understand English can see those overtures in the speech. Only Serb apologists say otherwise. There is no misrepresentation – read the section I put above.

    ”I regret the pond scum antics here. I’m not the initiator of them and have consistently shown a willingness to keep it on topic and academic. I’ll not bow down to terrorism.”

    I do too, its a pity you restarted them today. You’re problem is you must win, because you arent adult enough to concede, and because you are wrong, I will not allow you get away with it. If you look down from my 2.08pm comment of today its clear to see that you started the shit firing, and, as has happened time and again elsewhere, you run for the hills when you cant handle it. You were thrown out of SRB for the same reason back in july -consistent crank comments that got everyones back up followed by squeeling for protection from ‘trolling'(ie people who challenge the factuality of what you say and your qualifications that allow you claim ‘expertise’)

  158. News flash:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7256158.stm

    I condemn this without holding back.

    The disgusting recognition of an independent Kosovo shouldn’t excuse such manner.

    Having said this, I hope my drafted plan still has a chance.

  159. Stop lying about the past troll. It’s on record.

  160. Andy says:

    Not positive news at all, although probably to be expected.

    I still think the final outcome will be a de-facto partition of Kosovo, with the Northern, Serb dominated areas either making a UDI of their own, or finding some way to unify with Serbia proper.

    The problem is going to be finding a solution for those Serbs living in areas in the south of Kosovo. They are probably the most vulnerable group at this point.

  161. I’ve it on good word that the Americans told the Albanians to not try to takeover that Mitrovica area for the immediate future. Foreign forces are there in part to ensure this.

    Many in the West are mistaken by the damage fostered by recognizing an independent Kosovo.

    Greater Albania is an issue, along with the diplomatic quagmire regarding those nations who will not recognize an independent Kosovo and the hypocritical example of Pridnestrovie; which from the prism of history and human rights has a much better case for independence.

  162. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Stop lying about the past troll. It’s on record.”

    It sure is Averko-troll, right after 2.08pm.

    ” condemn this without holding back.

    The disgusting recognition of an independent Kosovo shouldn’t excuse such manner.

    Having said this, I hope my drafted plan still has a chance.”

    Just saw it on CNN. Its hard to blame them though, the country is being disembowelled. They should’ve thought of that when they supported Slobo after Kosovo Pole. All roads have an end. If this keeps up Serbia will end up the size of Malta. Which might not be a bad thing. Your plan has no chance of success – its over. Russia will bow down eventually, when offered a carrot, as it usually does.

  163. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Good grief! The building is on fire!

  164. Lying troll, who has been busted for (among other things) lying about what Milosevic said at Kosovo Polje in 1989.

    Terrbily slanted coverage at Fox, MSNBC and CNN America.

  165. “Good grief! The building is on fire!”

    I’m afraid it will not be the only one to burn in the near future. The Serbians feel deeply offended and hurt, which I can understand very well.

    The entire “Kosovo Independence” is a very sad thing.

  166. Heribert is spot on.

  167. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Averko-troll,

    I actually copied and pasted the part of the speech from a link YOU provided. So quite how I lied, when using your own links, I dont know. And you didnt address the fact that the speech IS war-mongering. Your ability to ignore things that dont suit your argument is just hilarious.

    ”I’m afraid it will not be the only one to burn in the near future. The Serbians feel deeply offended and hurt, which I can understand very well.”

    Looks like Irish and German troops are going to be in Kosovo for quite some time yet.

  168. William Cohen just talked about “the rule of law” in Serbia. I’d like to hear his expertise on where he exactly sees “the rule of law” in the “Kosovo Independence” ? I slightly remember my classes on “Public International Law” … particularly when the topic “integrity of national borders” was discussed. I am a little clueless right now.

  169. “Looks like Irish and German troops are going to be in Kosovo for quite some time yet.”

    Yes, unfortunately. I’ve spent quite some time in the military myself (12 years – Oct 1986 until Sept 1998). Had my share of GECONIFOR … I dare to say that I have some knowledge of Serbian mentality.

  170. I saw that one as well Heribert. It’s like the ICTY. His kind hypocritically make and break standards as they see fit.

    Is there an admission that I’m matter of fact right about Milosevic’s 1989 Kosovo Polje address? If not, it just goes to show how some will continuously lie on.

    Andy, I’m trying to keep it civil while not bowing down to terrorism.

  171. GER O'BRIEN says:

    I just hope the Americans have got their people out.

    I do have sympathy for the Serbs, I’ve worked with a few, and I’m sure they’re pretty unhappy now, the ordinary people who are no doubt suffering humiliation . But sadly, the actions of their leadership and military in 1998-99 have precipitated this, and, as usual, the population suffer the consequences. Whether Kosovo can even function on its own is another thing altogether.

  172. Unlike the real troll here, “Averko troll” has been posted/published at a number of venues; which many would consider credible. Unlike the real troll here, “Averko troll” has also been paid for his SL topic related work.

    So much for the troll and his hypocritical standards.

    Call it shoving right back up the troll’s smelly ass, where it belongs.

    TKO

  173. Just got this word from a collerague in Belgrade (said tongue and cheek, as he/she is a pacifist):

    Wanna come to a BBQ at US Emb? 😉
    I did peaceful protest, but left early
    to protect my spine from aggresive, stupid
    photographers.

    I’m fine, though missed a good photo op!

    🙂

    —————————————————————————

    Awaiting some other replies.

  174. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Is there an admission that I’m matter of fact right about Milosevic’s 1989 Kosovo Polje address? If not, it just goes to show how some will continuously lie on.”

    Mike, I conceded that the ‘no-one should dare to beat you’ bit was misrepresented. But you simply cannot deny the rhetoric used in that speech and that it was war mongering. I am using a translation YOU provided. You are actually ignoring words that you use to bolster your case. That speech was scandalous!

    ”Yes, unfortunately. I’ve spent quite some time in the military myself (12 years – Oct 1986 until Sept 1998). Had my share of GECONIFOR … I dare to say that I have some knowledge of Serbian mentality.”

    I spoke brieflt at a Christmas party to an Irish soldier based there. He was quite worried about the Serbs, as I recall. I was drunk though and remember little else. But the Serbs I worked with were resigned to Kosovo’s loss. They werent happy about it though, and consistently blamed the failure of the Albanians to make any attempt whatsoever to integrate, from day one. In that sense, it is a shame what’s happening.

  175. That’s: colleague.

  176. “Whether Kosovo can even function on its own is another thing altogether.”

    What I am particularly worried about is the “spark” that might now be provided to all those “Albanian minorities” in the larger area … e.g. Macedonia … all pursueing their “independence” and finally ending up discovering their “Greater Albanian Identity” … what will see then ?

    A “Greater Albania” muslim state in Europe ?

  177. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Unlike the real troll here, “Averko troll” has been posted/published at a number of venues; which many would consider credible. Unlike the real troll here, “Averko troll” has also been paid for his SL topic related work.

    So much for the troll and his hypocritical standards.

    Call it shoving right back up the troll’s smelly ass, where it belongs.

    TKO”

    Averko-troll-man, you’ve never been paid for a cent of anything you’ve got published on PAPER. You’re just an amateur, who, through his own harrassment of media types, has lost ANY hope of getting proper employ, not to mention your bullshit writing style. TKO my arse. You love having the last word – not this time, you dirty little spammer!) SPAM-BOY!)

  178. No!!!!

    To take out of such context what he said is a gross misrepresentation. This is what much of western mASS media did.

    On the whole, he clearly lauded the idea of multi-ethnic Yugoslavia, noting its being threatened by the enhanced Albanian nationalist terrorism – the result of the great autonomy that province had.

    This point relates to how oultets like the BBC typically say the problem started with the “Serb crackdown” in 1989.

    The USSR attacked Nazi Germany.

  179. Heribert:

    In 1999, American diplomat Christopher Hill said that Greater Albania will be the real threat in the coming years.

    A recent poll noted how Albanians at large support living in one state.

    A number of Albanian web sites have maps of an Albania including:

    – Kosovo

    – Serbia’s Presevo region

    – part of Macedonia

    – part of Greece

    – part of Montenegro

    This Greater Albania concept has appeared greater than the much stated Greater Serbia. I don’t see Serb nationalist sites displaying a map of Greater Serbia

  180. Gentlemen ! Please ! Please, don’t force Andy to close this thread.

    What a pity I don’t have satellite tv. I’d like to see the coverage of the Belgrade riots in Russian TV.

  181. Lying troll:

    You’re the paranoid nitwit, who at this thread had said that Hayate was Roobit. You then proceeded to suggest that he/she was me.

    Can it already with your bogus half truths and outright lies.

    Fortuntately, you know little of my life. In any event, it’s none of your business. Try getting attention elsewhere. Your act has long since played out.

    Heribert:

    If you’ve high speed, see:

    http://www.rttv.ru

  182. At this moment: if you’ve high speed, you can get video of the riot at this link:

    http://www.serbianna.com

  183. Well, maybe … a decade down the road, will we see an American president calling for an “Coalition of the Willing” to form an alliance to remove the “Muslim-Albanian-Threat” … to remove some tyrant … with WMD’s … or without … some “son of a bitch” ? Let’s see !

    Sometimes its rather difficult to remove the “Ghosts” created by ourselves. I am very angry at (my) German government … is the German embassy burning as well ?

  184. Most Albanians are secular. 20% are of OC background. They tend to reside in southern Albania and Greece (away from Kosovo). 10% are RC. The “Kosovars” are mostly of Muslim origin.

    Note how Muhammed Al Jinnah split the Indian independence movement by advocating a Muslim dominated state in Pakistan. Jinnah wasn’t so religious. For that matter, Israel’s staunchest supporters include some Jews, who say they’re atheists.

  185. A number of Serbs seem to feel that Germany has it in for them as a result of the two world wars and the relatively good sized numbers of Croats, Turks and Bosniaks residing in Germany.

    A Serbian-German told me that the once Prussian areas of Germany are the least anti-Serb, with southern Germany and Austria harboring an anti-Serb slant.

  186. Ok, the German embassy is not burning at the moment … but our brave embassy guards had to be evacuated. I wonder by whom. The Americans were more clever, their embassy was empty already.

  187. “A Serbian-German told me that the once Prussian areas of Germany are the least anti-Serb, with southern Germany and Austria harboring an anti-Serb slant.”

    The “once Prussian areas of Germany” are now inhabited by Russians and Poles. I wonder how a “Serbian-German” can comment on how Russians and Poles feel towards Serbians. Actually I don’t think that there is anything such as a “Serbian-German”.

    Germany should know how it feels when “heartland” is ripped off and given to others, deserved or not. Now Germany supports the very same damned thing happening to Serbia.

    Giving Kosovo Polje to Kosovans is like what ? Giving “Ground Zero” to Bin Laden ? The Tower of London to Liechtenstein ? Is there any terriotry, as precious as Kosovo Polje to the Serbs, in America or the UK ?

  188. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Gentlemen ! Please ! Please, don’t force Andy to close this thread.”

    Fair enough Heribert. The man has repeatedly insulted me, inspite of several attempts at peace. This from a man who’s 45 years old and by all accounts cant score.

    For some reason CNN here isnt showing live pictures, nor BBC world nor SKy News nor Bloomberg. My internet speed is neither slow nor fast, if that makes any sense.

    ”Well, maybe … a decade down the road, will we see an American president calling for an “Coalition of the Willing” to form an alliance to remove the “Muslim-Albanian-Threat” … to remove some tyrant … with WMD’s … or without … some “son of a bitch” ? Let’s see !”

    I’ve seen the Greater Albania maps Mike linked. Ambitious and scary indeed. I’m just glad we havent an embassy there to burn – we were one of the first to recognise Kosovo, or say we would.

  189. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Actually I wonder long term about the ramifications of the action. Once again the UN has been ignored, like in Iraq war 2. Doesnt resolution 1244 stipulate that Kosovo is unequivocably Serb?

  190. Second submission. Pardon if posted in duplicate.

    Heribert:

    He’s Germnan born, with both his parents being Serb. Got it?

    If I’m not mistaken, Prussia didn’t only constitute areas which are now parts of Poland and Russia.

    Duly noted how the troll falsely carries on as an innocent.

    UNSC 1244 is fully outlined in the article hyperlinked at my name (originally posted back in March at another venue):

    United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244 specifically states that Kosovo is a part of Yugoslavia. Serbia is internationally recognized as the successor state to Yugoslavia. In Communist and post Communist Yugoslavia Kosovo was part of the Serb republic. UNSC 1244 calls for a return of refugees, as well as of Serb military and government bodies to Kosovo. This has yet to happen. In legalese, the 1244 clause about taking into “full consideration” the unsigned Rambouillet diktat is not a green light for independence. It simply means that aspects of Rambouillet can perhaps be considered. Prior to the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, the Clinton Administration and Kosovo Albanian nationalists wrote a clause in Rambouillet which would have (if signed) permitted Kosovo to vote on independence after three years from the accord’s signing. I specifically recall noted American University law professor Paul Williams bragging about his having written that segment on Geraldo Rivera’s MSNBC cable news show. No one questioned Williams’ objectivity as a then adviser to the Kosovo Albanian nationalist leaders. Madeleine Albright was quoted as having said that Rambouillet was written in a way that was unacceptable to the Serbs. An obvious pretext for starting the war that was to be. The “final outcome” status for Kosovo is stated towards the end of 1244. It relates to how Kosovo should be governed as a part of Serbia. What other logical way can be otherwise suggested when the very same document recognizes Kosovo as part of Serbia, while stating that refugees, Serb government and military bodies should return to that province?”

  191. Should’ve clarified that historic Prussia included territory of present day Germany. Unless I’m wrong?

    I can try digging up exactly what the mentioned Serbian-German said on the subject.

  192. “This from a man who’s 45 years old and by all accounts cant score.”

    His intell continues to match his earlier comments about Hayate.

    What’s next?

  193. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Duly noted how the troll falsely carries on as an innocent.

    Averko, if you dont knock it off, I’m going to post those emails, right here and now, in which you insult a number of individuals you know quite well, some of whom are VERY close at hand. Inspite of numerous attempts at calm by me, you have come back with insults. One more word, you dirty little charlatan, and you’re toast. To use one of your tasteless imperatives, kapish?

  194. Andy says:

    Just watched the Serbianna video – it’s actually just a link to a video on the (British) Sky News website.

    In that particular clip, Serbian riot police are on site in force and charging protestors away when they do try to break into the embassy. It’ll be interesting to see if that was isolated, or if the Belgrade police are making a real effort to stop the riots. Interesting also to see who the US blames when the dust settles tomorrow morning.

    By the way – if you’re in the UK and get Sky, you can watch Russia Today live on Channel 516. At the moment they’re showing a rather interesting documentary about the manufacture of valenki (felt boots), but I expect they’ll be covering the news from Belgrade again live at the top of the hour.

  195. Andy says:

    Apparently a couple of Russia Today journalists got caught up in the fighting and were attacked by the mob.

    I guess they were taken for Western journos, as the RTTV website says their attackers stopped once they realised they were Russian.

    http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/21221

  196. Thanks Andy.

    Troll:

    You’ve already proven your asshole status. Moreover, it wouldn’t be wise of you to doctor any one to one emails, or post undoctored ones.

    Your call. This latest outburst from you is a further revelation of your ill being.

    I don’t bow down to terrorists.

  197. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”By the way – if you’re in the UK and get Sky, you can watch Russia Today live on Channel 516.”
    Blin! I have the box, not the dish and cant type in a number to.

    For those who bothered learning Russian:

    http://www.vesti.ru/videos?vid=123033&cid=1&doc_type=news&doc_id=165144

  198. The wording of the troll’s last post suggests either another person’s writing and-or input. Whatever, note the spite behind it.

  199. To clarify, the troll’s 10:44 PM post. Sick.

  200. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”You’ve already proven your asshole status. Moreover, it wouldn’t be wise of you to doctor any one to one emails, or post undoctored ones.”

    You must be joking. Doctored? Apologise or be exposed. Your call.

  201. I don’t bow down to gutless wonders like yourself.

    The stated threat of posting doctored or private non-doctored emails reveals a low life status.

  202. Apologize for standing up to a creepy troll?

    Weird1

  203. Andy says:

    Just watching RTTV now. They’re reporting that things are quieting down and people seem to be going home.

    But also, they’re quoting Serbian media reports that a “charred body” has been found in the US embassy. Presumably, if all the US staff had gone home, this would be one of the rioters?

  204. GER O'BRIEN says:

    You will apolgise for starting the fun and games today. Or I’ll post it. No joking. Maybe its about time everyone saw the kind of things you’ve said about people.

  205. Liar:

    I’d very limited exchanges with you. Private matter that you can easily doctor like a slimeball twit. You said some things in agreement with my comments.

    You’re the one who should apologize in addition to getting some psychological help by making such comments on line.

  206. Andy:

    The one hour long PBS NewsHour show isn’t doing a segment on it.

    American mass media is interested with McCain having an alleged affair and a helicoptor incident, involving some US senators in Afghanistan.

    I wonder if ABC News NightLine will cover it?

  207. GER O'BRIEN says:

    I’ll spare your embarrassment. I’ll send directly them to the people involved right now, and let them peruse them. Doctoring can easily be detected Mike. Or, you can apologise privately to my by mail. If I get the email within 20 minutes, I’ll spare your blushes. YOU started this crap today, and I will finish it. I would have taken this whole conversation off line, were it not for the fact that you squeel in public to the High Heavens whenever I send you an email. Bear in mind these people are friends of yours, VERY close by.

    Mike, I insulted nobody in any mail, and have nothing to be scared of. Doctor away, it can easily be shown to be so.

  208. You’ve backpedalled from your threat of posting them here.

    Moreover, others will see that you aren’t one to be trusted.

    It’s very easy to doctor emails. Such sleaze tactics have been done against others.

    These comments from you are troll like and off the subject.

    I don’t kowtow to terrorism.

    Get help and get it soon.

  209. My friends have zero to worry about. They know me well enough and can see what kind of a mind you have.

    My friends respect my earnest willingness to take unpopularly just stands.

  210. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Tsk, Tsk, Tsk, ten minutes left and I’ve got no email yet. Better hurry up, Gorky Park is starting very soon….see Mike, when I have a go at someone, it’ll be in public. Your whole life is sending poisonous emails, and now one of them is going to bite you in the arse.

    Spakoinoi noche, Amerikanskii durak!)

  211. There’s something to be said about wrestling with a pig. Like this troll knows who my friends are. This person, who has gleefully insulted and lied about me at other sites.

  212. His twisted mind has really zonked out. Creepy.

  213. In a not so distant SL post at another thread, he lauded my mailings. Can’t seem to make up his mind. “Poisonous”? How would he know? He’s not on the lists. Much of those lists content is at the GUT International thread I linked here. Along with his manner here, his opened and non-opened emails reveal a really creepy side.

  214. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Ah, these people are blog owners where you’ve published. And I dont mean SG, or Russia Blog, or Rossiskaya Federazia. When I say close, you’d be suprised. Your mouth is too big Mike.

    Anyway, times up! If you get any abuse or funny reactions in the near future, dont be suprised. I could have wrestled you like a pig all evening, but I couldnt be arsed -like Indiana Jones, I’m just going to shoot the swordsman, like in ”Raiders of the Lost Ark”. Saves a load of grief.

    And by the way I’m putting them here, even I’m not that bad. You’d be in hiding aferwards if I did.

    Time for Gorky Park:-)

  215. GER O'BRIEN says:

    NOT putting them here, apologies for any confusion.

  216. What a freak!

    Hilariously pathetic. If sent to my “friends”, they’ll forward it to me and we’ll have a good laugh, perusing at threads like these and maybe reviewing some of your junked emails.

    The coward made an ass of himself here and now pursues to make an even bigger ass of himself without apparently even recognizing it.

  217. Prior submission didn’t go thru. Pardon if posted twice.

    “GER O’BRIEN Says:
    February 21st, 2008 at 11:53 pm
    NOT putting them here, apologies for any confusion.”

    ****

    Liar! He clearly said he would. He previously said he wouldn’t do it at all.

    Regardless, he’s one sickola.

  218. GER O'BRIEN says:

    From: mikeaverko@msn.com
    To: irlandyets@hotmail.com
    Subject: Re: Hello Mike
    Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:01:05 -0400

    Hi Ger:

    The man has shown himself to be an evil snake. He’s like that Ethan Burger character. I blame Andy for jumping the gun on that discussion. Andy’s always interfering, a real schmuckowiz.. He should have left it alone. However, Burger got universal bad coverage for his manner. Inclusive of an attorney who doesn’t often agree with me and a Moscow News reporter, who disagreed with my JRL critique.

    BTW, I liked your retort to Burger. A bit puzzled by your seeming agreement with HS.

    Salut!

    Mike
    —– Original Message —–
    From: Ger Clancy
    To: mikeaverko@msn.com
    Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:55 PM
    Subject: Re: Hello Mike

    Hi Mike,

    I didnt give him credence at all. Take no notice. I’m just gving you my
    observation of whats going on. I dont mind being on the bcc list, thats fine
    with me, I just like reading your stuff.

    Is Mise,

    Do Chara,

    Ger

    >From: “Mike Averko”
    >To: “Ger Clancy”
    >Subject: Re: Hello Mike
    >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:54:59 -0400
    >
    >Dear Ger:
    >
    >??
    >
    >And what of yourself, giving credence to that lying twit Heribert
    >Schindler? I wanted to see that “email” he mentioned. Consider yourself
    >on, but understand that the open 100 has been filled. I can only send out
    >100 at a time. You will be on the bcc, with a reservation for a future
    >opening on the open list.
    >
    >JRL has been “hurting” the coverage of the FSU. I provided the details at
    >SRB. Feel free to reply to them unlike the bozos at the SRB conversation.
    >
    >Mike
    > —– Original Message —–
    > From: Ger Clancy
    > To: mikeaverko@msn.com
    > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:58 AM
    > Subject: Hello Mike
    >
    >
    > Dear Mike,
    >
    > this is Ger Clancy(O’Brien is my mothers surname), ‘Irishman’. Put me on
    > your mailing list, I’d like to read your articles and opinions. Stop
    >hurting
    > yourself complaining about JRL. Be above that.
    >
    > Ger
    >
    > _________________________________________________________________
    > Make free PC-to-PC calls with no loss of life!
    >
    >http://www.communicationevolved.com/en-ie/
    >

    _________________________________________________________________
    Share folders without harming wildlife!
    http://www.communicationevolved.com/en-ie/

    ——————————————————————————–

    Join the all-new Windows Live Messenger family Click here

    Ahem. You were saying?

  219. As for “hiding”, that’s your earlier troll friend (initials CD) who left here in disgrace after posting a series of 100% troll comments at another SL thread.

  220. GER O'BRIEN says:

    You couldnt leave it alone, could you?:-)

  221. Andy & Co:

    The posted material here is definitely doctored.

    Note that it goes against what he previously said.

    Has he not really gone beyiond the pale.

    Earlier today, Andy very diplomatically questioned his manner. Now, he takes it to a greater extreme.

  222. To read as: “Has he not really gone beyond the pale?”

    My comments about JRL and EB have been pretty much stated.

    At another thread, Heribert Schindler falsely accused me of saying that I wanted to f*** him. I never said such. That segment about him is true. I was understandably annoyed at him.

    Also, the lying troll has previously stated that HS would say bogus things about others. In one instance, he actually takes my side.

    This is a sick loon with nothing better to do.

  223. GER O'BRIEN says:

    There is nothing doctored in it all. I have gone beyond the pale, and already regretting posting it, but you brought it on with your 11.58 comment. Tough shit.

    Now if you dont mind, Arkady Renko is visiting the militsia coroner in Moscow. You can clean up this dirty mess yourself, your two faced little lisa.

  224. GER O'BRIEN says:

    I will ask Andy to take it down. My point is made.

  225. GER O'BRIEN says:

    In fairness, Andy please remove it, and sorry for putting it up.

  226. What a pathetic putz of a troll.

    No dent or scratch.

    I’m resilient creep.

    Shortly after one of your troll attacks at another venue, I’d a very big gig. Perhaps the same will happen.

    PLEASE LEAVE IT UP ANDY, WITH ALL THE OTHER COMMENTS. HE HAS SHAMED HIMSELF.

    Better yet, have him pledge to not carry on like a troll in exchange for removing that doctored creation of his.

    He has a very sick sense that should get appropriately dealt with. Much like how I handled his pal.

  227. Exile wrote a not so complimentary piece about JRL. It seems to have been purged. If so, why? It raised pertinent points.

  228. Responsibly free thinking analysis shouldn’t be hushed up. Conversely, bullying troll like antics and behind the scene manipulative efforts to censor aren’t kosher.

  229. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”PLEASE LEAVE IT UP ANDY, WITH ALL THE OTHER COMMENTS. HE HAS SHAMED HIMSELF”

    No Mike, the shame is all yours, for insulting someone who published you and whom considered you a friend. Today Mike, you are toast, and shown for what you are, which is a liar and a snake.
    I only feel bad for behaving as badly as you. Perhaps he should leave it up, as testamnet to the rat you are.

    ”No dent or scratch.

    I’m resilient creep.”

    Lets let Andy, the person you insulted -be the judge of that, you dishonest turd. Your’re certainly a resilient creep. Besides Andy is in bed now.

  230. Two more unopened emails went right into my junk box. I didn’t say who sent them.

    Just came out of the sauna. So yes, I’m a bit toasty.

    Not on account of some witless chump, who just lied again with the claim that I insulted Andy.

    Andy interviewed me and posted my well received review of Mark MacKinnon’s book. Andy also gave me a thumbs up on my well received RB ice hockey article. In comparison, the slimeball skank has caused trouble at this venue. Hopefully, he will go away soon.

  231. He’s the same $__t who didn’t say boo when his pal made one crank post after another at a different SL thread.

    That creep was sure put in his place.

    I don’t take too kindly to frauds. The rat (as in someone releasing doctored emails) is no one special and shouldn’t be coddled, despite his carrying on like an overgrown infant.

  232. hayate says:

    Checked my email and it was full of post notices from here.

    My initial assessment of the troll was correct, funny how it always is. It is a zionist troll, plain and simple. The fact it attempts to contact people under false pretenses here confirms this. It is gathering personal data. Data mining. Mike, if you have an email it sent, run an IP address check and see if it will source. Most use email services that don’t or use proxies. If it does show he’s in Ireland at all, he’s probably an american student. I’ve had over a dozen of these data miners try the same scam on me, just from gut related contacts.

  233. Something creepy about him for sure. Ditto some of the company he seems to keep. For whatever reason, he’s inftatuated with me.

    Don’t you think the Zionist reference is a bit overemphasized? You make some really good points. The constant harping on that matter undoubtedly throws a lot of people off from your valid points. Yes, Israel has that “special relationship” with America built on lobbying clout. Nevertheless, calling him a Zionist is well… (in your case, it’s not anti-Jewish, but somewhat Lenni Brenneresque)

    Regarding an earlier discussion on Serbia-Prussia and Serbia-Germany, here’re some notes from a Serbian-German:

    “During the 18th and 19th century, Serbia and Prussia had good relationships. Both countries were consolidators in their regions. Furthermore, the cultural exchange was great (Goethe, Schiller, Grimm brothers and Serbian poems had great relationships)
    Also there is a great trade relationship between Germany and Serbia (70% of Serbia’s factories are from Germany)
    The misunderstandings started when Austria joined forces with Germany at the beginning of the 20th century. Serbia and Austria had, have and will always have strategic issues in the Western Balkans as being the dominant states. In 1914 Austria forced Germany to war against Serbia. Serbia decided WW1 with breaking through the Greek front in 1918. In WW2, Germany sent former Austrian soldiers to Serbia who had their own revenge in mind. During WW2 the real Germans behaved properly in Serbia and a lot of officers had great relationships there
    Many fashist Croats left to Germany after WW2 and organized themselves over there. Chetniks went mostly to the USA, Canada and Australia
    But: Djindjic was a great friend of Germany and the Germans. Whenever I went to Serbia, everybody was talking nicely and respectfully about Germany. Therefore, things are getting better…”

    ****

    This was from about a year ago. Keep in mind that the chap is a German-Serb admirer of Chetnik WW II leader Draza Mikhailovich (pardon Russian transliteration of his name). He’s also a fan of the late Zoran Djindjic who had good ties with Germany. Djindjic wasn’t a particularly popular figure in Serbia. Kostunica and him had issues. Tadic is somewhere in between Kostunica and Djindjic, with Kostunica being somewhere between Tadic and Nikolic.

  234. Hayate

    So, what do you do for a living?

    Easy tiger! Just kidding!

    Get ready for a possible discussion on how Brenner, Lilienthal and the Satmar each view a particular ideology.

    You’re familar with Phyllis Bennis? Along with someone else, she revealed something about herself that I can identify with. AC at Counterpunch seems to have some issues with her org. If I understand correctly, it’s a kind of parallel to how some feel that CATO has gone a bit mainstream. Bandow and Pena out, with Ilarionov and some others in. The mainstreaming of “alternative” views is a constant.

    Two great Counterpunch articles on Kosovo by Szamuely and Johnstone.

    At least one person’s head must be spinning.

  235. Andy says:

    Wow – fun stuff to wake up to on a Friday morning.

    Frankly, I’m baffled as to how I should respond to this and still appear the embodiment of calm reasonableness that I so clearly am – well, compared to you two guys at least.

    Let’s start of with this – the post Mike is referring to in his email:

    http://www.siberianlight.net/2007/04/10/the-best-books-about-russia-on-the-radio/

    I’m confident the email isn’t doctored. If it is, Ger should be given some credit at least – as an uber-creative master forger.

    An apology would be nice, but if it doesn’t come I’m not going to be banning anyone.

    You both are clearly intelligent men, and have a great deal to contribute in the comments here, bringing views from two sides of the political spectrum. Your continued commenting is welcome here.

    Having said that, you are also both morons.

    You both know why you are morons, but you also both know how to hold a civilised conversation while at the same time expressing differing views – I suggest you do so in future.

  236. It was doctored.

    Hi Andy:

    I’m possibly a moron for replying to him. On the other hand, why should he troll me off?

    You can be considered a moron for treating he and I as equals, which is clearly not the case.

    I’m all for being in receipt of an apology.

    At one point, you seemed to express amusement with his insults. On the whole, I didn’t quite find it that way. You’re intelligent enough to know my worth and how I correspond with civil individuals.

    I prefer that scenario over his repeated abuse at this and other venues.

    Sincerely,

    Mike

  237. Perhaps better stated as:

    “You can be considered a moron for treating the two of us as equals, which is clearly not the case.”

    He has clearly shown that a stated apology means little to some (himself included).

    I’m not like that. An apology from me is sincere and is given when there’s a firm basis for it.

    – Releasing doctored emails
    – Misrepresenting what I’ve said
    – Disrespecting other views
    – Repeating rehashed and faulty criticisms, which were previously addressed

    I’m sorry that trolling at venues like these can hijack otherwise constructive discussion. I can only to do so much to ensure the latter.

  238. Scratch the last edit as the original made more sense. In a rush.

    Forgot to add his bringing up his stated position in an unrelated field to the subject matter.

    Among his insults:

    – Falsely and insultingly portraying the historical term Kievan Rus

    – Bad mouthing pro-Serb blogs and saying nothing negative of anti-Serb ones

    Such manner took a personal side, since it was adressed to my mentioning of those points.

    We both saw how his pal corresponeded at another SL thread. Evety post of his was 100% troll. No one called Chris Doos a moron in that instance. We see how and why he left. Rather cowardly in my view.

    You want seriously informative discussion? I’m the man.

  239. I don’t understand this one:

    “Let’s start of with this – the post Mike is referring to in his email:

    http://www.siberianlight.net/2007/04/10/the-best-books-about-russia-on-the-radio/

    I’m confident the email isn’t doctored. If it is, Ger should be given some credit at least – as an uber-creative master forger.”

    ******

    That link doesn’t appear to correspond with his released and doctored email matter at this thread.

  240. The link is interesting in more than one way. I see how it relates to Andy’s most recent note here.

    Bottom line is unlike some people, I tend to shutup on issues I know little about. This route I think is more reasonable than popping off with comments that are simultaneously misinformative and insulting.

    BTW, EB said some other things prior to that exchange. Like his willing appearance at an anonymous bigot’s site. Then, for him to call me “anti-Semitic”, while professing to not be familiar with my work. How intelligent is that?

  241. db says:

    My initial assessment of the troll was correct, funny how it always is. It is a zionist troll, plain and simple. The fact it attempts to contact people under false pretenses here confirms this. It is gathering personal data. Data mining. Mike, if you have an email it sent, run an IP address check and see if it will source. Most use email services that don’t or use proxies. If it does show he’s in Ireland at all, he’s probably an american student. I’ve had over a dozen of these data miners try the same scam on me, just from gut related contacts.

    ?????????? ??? ?????????? ? ???????? ????????? ????????????????? ?????. ????? ?? ???? ???????, ??????? ????????, ?????????? ? ?????? ? ??????????? ????? ???????, ???????? ?????? ??????? ??????????, ??? ????? «?». ??? ? ?????? – ?????????, ?????????, ???? ???? – ?????????????????, ??? ???????? ????? ??????????????????. ?? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??????. ??????? ??????????? ??? ???, ???????? ?????? ??????? ??????????, ?????? ? ??? ????????????????? ??????????? ????? ???. ?????????? ??? – ??? ??? ?? ??? ???????, ??? ?????? ??????, ??? ???, ??????????? ??????, ? ??????????? ????????, ? ??????????. ? ??????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????????? ??? ???????? ????? ???????, ???? ?? ??????. ?? ? ? ????? ????, ??? ???????????, ???????? ????????? ???????????. ?? ????????? ?????????? ???????, ? ???????? ?????? ??????? ????? ?? ?????????? – ????????.

    http://dedushka-nomto.livejournal.com/162325.html

  242. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”It was doctored.”

    No, it wasnt, and in spite of Andy’s requests, you still cant leave it alone, which sparked all this in the first place. The fundamental of the whole thing is that you are dishonest, and simpy unable to apologise for your actions. This goes a long way toward explaining why you dont work for RT or any of those groups you’ve ask to work for. As a human being, you are impossible to deal with, like a burst sewer.

    ”That link doesn’t appear to correspond with his released and doctored email matter at this thread.”

    The email referred to when Etahn Burger appeared on SL, referring to your appearance on an anti-semitic website. The fact is you appeared at a site where anti-semitic rants appeared. Lie down in shit and you’ll get dirty.

    ”I’m all for being in receipt of an apology.”
    You got one. I shouldnt have posted your emails, which make me look as bad as you. However, I think Andy meant that you should apologise for your conduct here, which, if one simply reads the thread, can see you couldnt leave the bullshit alone. And now everyone can see what you’re like.

    “You can be considered a moron for treating the two of us as equals, which is clearly not the case.”

    Well, clearly he sees I’m not entirely at fault for what happened here. And Mike, again, you havent a scrap of significant work produced – quite where you get your airs from, I dont know. Mike, you spend your life annoying people on websites, writing crappy articles and wont admit what you do for a living. Quite how you believe yourself to be anyone’s superior is beyond me.Mike, I’ve my PhD and I lecture in my local polytechnic. What you do for a living is entirely unknown. You are not my superiour in any objective sense. I’m just sorry I dropped to your level.

    Andy izvinitye opyat’, nu, kak obuichno, on ne znaet kogda zamolchat’. Ya izvinyatsiya, nu on kak gromkii durak, ne kulturnii, kak graznaya pyanitsa, ne mogit zamolchat’. Eto trudnii slushat etot oskorbitelnii durak na forume publiskii i zamolchat’.

  243. GER O'BRIEN says:

    db,

    took me a while to read that one, my Rus is bad -maybe you’re on to something.
    Hayate, care to tell us a bit more about yourself?

  244. Sorry for dropping out of yesterday’s conversation so fast.

    I looked at the links at RTTV and Serbianna, followed the coverage of Belgrade’s “Love Parade” on TV and simultanously tried to follow the friendly debate between Ger and Mike on this thread. That clearly was too much for me yeaterday evening, so I defected and went to bed. I apologize.

    Well Mike, calling Andy “a real schmuckowiz” and myself “a lying twit” is indeed not very kind of you. Like Andy I’m confident the email isn’t doctored. I couldn’t care less what think or say about me BUT I think you most certainly owe an apology to Andy. And while being at it, you also owe an apology to Sean Guillory as well.

    Both, Andy and Sean, provide(d) to you a platform on which you are / were able to speak your mind and express your views. Clearly without an obligation to do so. You could get yourself a bog of your own. Treating Andy and Sean in such a disrespectful manner reflects poor credit upon yourself. Enough said.

  245. Heribert lies again as I NEVER called Andy a schmuckowitz. I greatly respect Andy’s free media ways over the course of time. Doesn’t mean I always agree with him.

    On top of Heribert’s other lies are his insulting me with misrepresentations at his blog (and elsewhere), as he blocked my attempts to comment. He’s not one to pass moral judgment on others.

    When compared to some others here including Heribert, I’ve more than proven how I can effectively communicate elsewhere; despite the prevailing prejudices against views I share with intelligent others. It includes a number of non-blog appearances. Heribbert reflects a crank like attitude that has tarred the blogging community.

    Why should Hayate have to reveal himself/herself unlike “db”?

    Hypocrisy duly noted.

    The emails were doctored in terms of leaving out how the lying troll egged me on as if he was supportive of my position. Some other issues as well.

    The troll LIES about a site he once again brings up. In no legitimate way can it be seen in the same bigoted light as LR where EB appeared. This was earlier detailed at this thread. Note how the troll ignores that as he rehashes misinformation. Vintage trolling. At this thread I earlier discussed how an SRB contributor and J. Otto Pohl’s blogged stated views can be taken by some as “anti-Semitic”. At SL, Tim Newman and perhaps even the troll (would’ve to check on the latter)lauded my opposition to commeneters who stated things that seemed to have a collectively anti-Jewish slant. Unlike the troll, I’m Jewish with rabbis on boths sides of my family tree. I’ve never renounced or hid my Jewish background and as a kid was beaten up (in the USA, not Russia) for being a “kike”. Note how the lying troll earlier “apologized” for his false suggestion of me. Shows that his “apologies” aren’t worth much.

    Is it possible to stay on topic and-or at leastr get away from the personal misrepresentations?

  246. Andy says:

    Okay – I’m bored now. You’re *all* just going round in circles, rehashing the same old insults, and my eyes are glazing over.

    If I could remember how to turn off the comments on this post, I would, but I’ve forgotten.

    So, instead, the next person to insult someone on this post will be condemned to spending an eternity in hell watching endless re-runs of Groundhog Day.

  247. Mike, I am quoting from your email to Ger, which I (like Andy) do not think is doctored.

    What exactly did you refer to by writing “Andy’s always interfering, a real schmuckowiz” , if not Andy. Well, forget about it.

    Back to the Kosovo, for those of you able to read German, or who have one of those brilliant online-translators Mike obviously has, here’s a good article by Spiegelfechter.

    http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/293/totgeburt-eines-staates

    Very interesting are the connections of the now “heads of state and government” in Kosovo and the organized crime. A good read.

    I’ll also be delighted to give a helping hand if the online translation shouldn’t turn out good enough.

  248. Andy:

    That would be Heribert as I never called you a schmuckowitz (quite the contrary).

    Heribert:

    I’ve a very multi-national network of friends acquaintances, relatives and businness associates.

  249. Second submission. Please excuse if duplicated.

    Pardon misspell: business

    Andy

    Regarding your earlier media notes. ABC New NightLine didn’t cover Kosovo. The Obama-Clinton debate took some of the news thunder away from the Belgrade rioting.

    Charlie Rose had on Obama adviser Samantha Power, who has a Sorosian outlook on former Yugoslavia. Same old, same old. I see her as possibly being somewhat more objective than a Holbrooke or Albright. She tends to deal more with “humanitarian” issues (at times arguably subjective in advocacy) not so related to the analytical route involving historical and political implications.

    This morning’s CSPAN had on Bush foreign policy official Robert Fried, who said that American policy in Kosovo has been correct.

    Watching the coverage of this issue on American television reveals a clear bias. On the Kosovo topic, someone like Lavrov is more objective than the Albrights, Rubins, Frieds and Clarks (among numerous others). This has to do with Russian policy being more even handed when compared to the official position taken by the US and some other countries.

    It’s not as if there aren’t competent North American analysts who can authoritatively communicate the Serb position. Trifkovic, Jatras, Bissett, among others.

  250. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Hey guys,

    first of all hope you had a nice weekend. I’m not here to restart the grief only to reiterate my apology to all concerned -Andy, as its his blog and couldnt do without all this bullshit, Mike for publishing what was a private set of emails and Heribert for getting sucked in (the emails were not doctored, however. Bad as I am, I’m not that bad. Mike . It was unforgivable atrocious behaviour. Mind you, I paid at least in part for it this weekend – had to babysit a grand total of five boys, so you can imagine the fun and games. Inspite of all the rubbish you can imagine -nintendo DS games, DVDs, toys -they’d fight over a piece of coal, if one of them became interested in it. We did watch the ‘Saint’ on tv sat nite and the kids were impressed with Moscow, mind you. Anyway, end result is I am now suffering what’s known as the ‘thousand yard stare’ after a weekend of madness, and I missed England beating France, which has opened up everything again!. Again, sorry to all concerned.

    Inspite of my protestations, the wife is going in to Limerick today to vote for Putin (oops, sorry, Medvedev of course!). I’ll be alright as long as she brings me back a packet of smokes)

  251. GER O'BRIEN says:

    And I reiterate also that Mike is not anti-semitic. He appeared at a venue where such sympathies had been voiced, but not by Mike. Clearly he is not anti-semitic.

  252. That mentioned venue is “clearly” not anti-Semitic. Once again, for consistency sake, some could make the same claims of J. Otto Pohl’s and Sean Guillory’s sites because of certain comments having been made which are either critical of Israel and-or Zionism as a political ideology.

    At an earlier SL thread, Tim Nemwan and perhaps at least one other person noted my opposition to remarks that smacked of an anti-Jewish bias. I tend not to hold back in confronting bigotry. Bigotry against Russia and Russians is a reality that is soft pedalled in comparison to how some other prejudices are scorned. It’s reprehensible that supposedly open minded folks aren’t so aware of this. I’ve written about it, providing first hand documentation which others haven’t. FACT! Rather than acknowledging this, we see some stupid shit insulting replies about how someone’s children or grand children can say they do analytical work.

    Others besides myself find http://russophobe.blogspot.com to easily qualify for the bigoted label when compared to the three mentioned sites.

    EB willingly appeared at LR, while essentially calling me “anti-Semitic” – despite his acknowledgement of not being familiar with my work. What kind of morality and displayed intelligence is that?

    Sticking on topic:

    Getting Kosovo Right
    http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/53215

  253. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Rather than acknowledging this, we see some stupid shit insulting replies about how someone’s children or grand children can say they do analytical work. ”

    What are you talking about?!

  254. What Andy had asked be put to rest. Namely, rehashing what was previously raised in a way that takes away from the subject of the discussion.

    Andy also asked to be substantive when critiquing. Rather than questioning one’s sexual prowess (or lack thereof) and education level (many brilliantly successful analytical minds out there and comparatively not as well received Phds), a better attempt at questioning actual ideas with firm counter evidence.

    Andy:

    Following up on the media coverage, Friday’s PBS NewsHour had on Obrad Kesic (who has been employed by Milan Panic) and an Albanian VOA fellow whose name escapes me. An example of how moderate Albanian views appear (at least to me) more extreme than the Serb variant.

    Awhile back, I turned down an invite to attend a Gutman-Rieff Columbia U. panel as a non-panelist. Why torture oneself? I know what they’re going to say. They get the first and last words in, while speaking the most. A Gutman, Rieff, Johnstone, Szamuely panel is another story. Hoping that Johnstone and Szamuely are as good in live point-counterpoint exchanges as their rock solidly written commentary.

  255. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Rather than questioning one’s sexual prowess (or lack thereof)”
    who asked about your sexual prowess? As I recall, more than once on threads you’ve referred to ex girlfriends and lovely Slavic girls of yours. Those who are getting some feel no need to talk about it.

    ”Namely, rehashing what was previously raised in a way that takes away from the subject of the discussion.”

    Nobody was rehashing anything at all above. What are you talking about, exactly?

    Substance: Your article at American Chronicle, aesthetics aside, is loaded on rhetoric and practially zero on fact. It fails miserably to acknowledge the most basic of parts of the story – that Serbia, who was GOVERNING Kosovo at the time, carried out genocidal acts in 1998-99 against the Muslim population. Omitting this fact or pretending its not there is just, well, weak, to say the least. Secondly, you astoundingly brush under the carpet the failure of Serbia or Srpska to hand over Karadic. I mean, are you actually joking? These are absolute pre-requisites to the acceptance of Serbia as an equal nation amoung the rest of Europe. If I was the EU, I simply wouldnt even answer Serbia’s begging for handouts until he is handed over. Thirdly -and this is hilarious – you repeatedly, with NO EVIDENCE WHATOSEVER, refer to the War Crimes Tribunal as a ‘kangaroo court’. This is simply astonishing, and you do it all the time.
    Would you kindly back up that statement with FACTS, not opinions?
    Fourthly, style. Mike, you may consider yourself a quality writer, but phraseoligies like ‘blah, blah, blah’ in a supposedly serious piece are simply not acceptable anywhere. You can scream ‘censorship’ all you want, but without basic writing skills you arent going to make a decent publication.
    Now, without starting a tirade about trolling, could you deal with the valid points raised?

    And by the way I know plenty of Hong Kongers, who I am quite certain wouldnt refer to it as a non-nation. More total ignorance.

    ”education level (many brilliantly successful analytical minds out there and comparatively not as well received Phds),”
    Call me old fashioned, but a defended thesis is considerably weightier in terms of respect than blog articles and the odd radio appearance. Yes, I know there are some brilliant people without them out there, but clearly, they have proven themselves in their field.

  256. He trolls on with misinformation, in clear contradiction of what Andy asked for.

    The involved subject matter isn’t his clear expertise and yet he restates brazenly ignorant comments, as if he knows what I said to be wrong; which isn’t the case.

    This thread has links and commentary soundly debunking his rehashed rubbish. ICTY, so called “genocide” etc.

    Contrary to his last asshole suggestive remark, I’ve proven myself as a worthy contributor. Unlike the troll, I’ve appeared at some high profile venues and receive my share of applause – field related Phds included.

    Mass media has a negative rep. with many, because of the existing imperfections. Proof positive that it can be qualitatively changed.

    The Hong kong reference is to show how a non-nation can be treated like one at a major intnl. org.

  257. My prior American Chronicle article, as well as points earlier raised at this thread soundly debunk the recent tirade of repeated misinformation.

    When compared to his commentary, my points are more fact based and much better documented. Needless to say, they make far more sense.

    Check a recent Robert Amsterdam thread on the Kosovo subject to see how a civil conversation is conducted.

  258. hayate says:

    A comment directed at those who think the troll is “too dim” to alter a few words in an email. This same “dim” individual was “dim” enough to know how to initially get Mike to think he was a serious poster here. He also is “dim” enough to grasp the what sort of wind-up would get Mike pissed off and apply it. He’s also “dim” enough to turn a straight forward thread into an unreadable mass of “he said – she said” bickering. He is also “dim” enough to have looked up some Irish researcher’s name and background and assumed that person’s identity for posting here. He is also “dim” enough to be able to find a Russian website. He’s also “dim” enough, after having done all of this, to still have people on this blog thinking he was a serious poster.

    I’ve not looked around here and am unfamiliar with whom is “boyfriends” with whom here (besides the obvious ger and db) but I’ve seen enough of these trolls to recognise their operating routine. Mike is fairly straight foreward, though a bit hot tempered (and always wrong when he disagrees with me ;D ), but anyone who would take the word of the troll over his, especially after all the crap that troll has already done, really should bring along a trusted friend when they go “bridge shopping”.

  259. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Mike,
    I put some points to you. Either answer them, or concede them. I read your article and paid attention to it, but your explanations are all too simplistic or non-existent. I’m sorry if you dont like your views being questioned, but that’s life. Shouting and roaring that the ICTY is a kangaroo court isnt good enough; back it up with facts or a link, preferably a non-propaganda site.Now, defend your article or accept the criticism.

    ”The involved subject matter isn’t his clear expertise and yet he restates brazenly ignorant comments, as if he knows what I said to be wrong; which isn’t the case.”

    You put the article out there; expect to defend it. Thats what academics do -they publish articles then defend them, not howl ‘troll’. As I recall, you got quite a pasting at a Fistful of Euros piece about the PMR. I am by no means the first to question the validity and factuality of what you write, wont be the last, and if someone with little interest in the Balkans like me can cause you such consternation, God Knows what an expert would do.

    hayate,
    I’d love to read your piece, but I’m going to have to get a ‘Russglish’ translator in. Expect a reply to your paranoid nonsense when I find a Russian pre-intermediate student of english. As for finding Russian websites, its obviously all part of the training I received from MI6. See hayate, even in little Ireland, surrounded by sheep, pubs and stone walls, there are evil men like me plotting against Putin’s Russia mwahahahah!:-)

  260. db says:

    … Republika Srpska has the status of a republic …

    Mike, you are mistaken here. Despite the name, Republika Srpska is not really a republic.

    http://www.ccbh.ba/public/down/USTAV_BOSNE_I_HERCEGOVINE_engl.pdf

  261. “db”

    You’re mistaken. Refer to the Dayton Accord. It speaks of a clause allowing Republika Srpska to establish its own parallel relationships with other states after a four year wait from the 1995 signing. True, the Bosniak nationalists and their fronts abroad (like the “Bosnian Institute”) have succeeded in curtailing Republika Srpska’s identity. It’s also true that Republika Srpska gets dictated to by Western appointed non-Serb dictators for the entity. Then again, “independent Kosova” isn’t so independent as George Szamuley eloquently detailed in his recent Counterpunch article.

    Hayate:

    You might be onto something. Chris Doss and Lyndon Allin are real folks under those names. The troll is a fraud as shown by how he repeats raising the same topics that were previously responded to in great detail. When this has happened, he moves to another issue. Awhile later, he’ll bring up those earlier points as if they weren’t discussed. Anyone taking his side is either of a twisted mind, or not paying attention to his disingenuously slimey antics.

    This thread has been a great lesson in cyber trolling.

    Note that I took Andy’s advice of not wanting to go back to such discussion. I clearly didn’t initiate it.

    I’m a genuine human being, free of the phony bullshit out there. The troll is either doing someone else’s bidding with their active support or (more likely) serving the role as a useless idiot for them. Useless in the sense that I’m showing how I don’t punk out when faced with such behavior.

  262. Second submission. Pardon if duplicated.

    This message from a friend in Belgrade:

    Despite the press hoopla about crazed mobs attacking
    embassies (only a few hundred people), hundreds of
    thousands of real Serbs — patriotic, peace-loving souls —
    showed their feelings for Kosovo in a more than dignified
    manner. Much more dignified than the Western nations who
    fomented the seperatist war, then carved Kosovo off.

  263. db says:

    Mike, in case you missed it, I posted a link to the full text of Constitution of Bosnia and Herzegovina. You can check for yourself that, despite the name, Republika Srpska is not really a republic.

  264. 1) Give Ireland Back To The Irish
    2) Give Kosovo Back To The Serbians
    3) Give Siberian Light Back To Andy Young

  265. Andy says:

    Speaking as an Englishman who is pro Kosovan independence, I wholeheartedly agree with point number three.

    Sorry Ger & Mike 😉

  266. Troll on you anonymous ****. Republika Srpska is a republic in name and what I last said about it is true.

    What’s your real name please? Just getting to the selective level of some others.

    db’s m.o. is to selectively nitpick what someone says while not being as high strung with others, when they’re wrong on such matters as spelling.

    One of his recent troll barbs dealt with Skoropadsky’s last name spelling. He didn’t come back to answer why Kenez and Brinkley spell that name as Skoropadskii. Another dealt with how a Russian web site abbreviated the name of the involved org in the English language. Both instances weren’t so analytical as they were trivial. In those situations, his troll like presentations were wrong.

  267. Andy:

    Your venue.

    My right to reply to babble said about me and-or views, individuals and orgs. that I support in one way or another.

    Mr. Schindler has done some cranky things, which have been correctly responded to.

    I gather you won’t mind if Wales and Scotland decide to break away. The latter being the more likely of the two. In any event, I don’t believe that Scotland has been considered the birth place of England.

    Considering Kosovo’s overall history, inclusive of how it recently (in history) became an Albanian majority, I’d say that Serbia has some legitimate say. There’s also UNSC 1244 standing in the way of Kosovo ever becoming a UN member without Serb support.

  268. The RS constitution refers to RS as a “repoublic”. Its name has reublic in it.

    The non-Serb Sarajevo based Bosniak nationalist politicos and their fronts abroad can spin all they want.

  269. That’s “republic”.

  270. Andy says:

    I’m with Mike here on the substantive point, although not on the rest of the nonsense he is spewing out at the moment about trolls and the like.

    Commonly today Republics are states, with all of the baggage that comes with statehood – particularly sovereignty.

    But, equally, Republics can be sub-state bodies, which is what Republika Srpska is today, in my view. Similarly to Soviet Republics or, perhaps, even US states today.

    Having said that, whether Republika Srpska fits the definition of a republic or not is really neither here nor there. It is a member of the Bosnian Federation, and has signed up to abide by the rules governing that Federation until such time as it leaves.

    By the way – I haven’t had time to check the constitution – is there provision within the for the either of the two constituent members of the Bosnian Federation to leave legally?

  271. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Heribert: Priceless:-) Danke schon:-) kogda ya buil student, ya znal student, kto buil Pallatine. Ochen khoroshii chelovek. Ryadom moi derevnaya tam muzei Palletine.

    Andy: Vsyo ponyatno. Kogda ya pisal vechera, ya prosto khotel skazat’ ‘izvinitye’. No, konechno, nash luchshii analist nachal voina opyat. Kak durak. Kak obuichno.

    db: vyu otclichi, kak kazhdaya vremya:-) maladyets)

  272. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Vsei: ya znayu moi russkii ochen plokho! Prosti menya!:-)

  273. BTW, look how many years it took before an agreement was reached in Northern Ireland. Look at the Cyprus matter. In comparison, there was no legitimate need to rush an ill advised independence declaration for Kosovo.

  274. Andy says:

    I gather you won’t mind if Wales and Scotland decide to break away. The latter being the more likely of the two. In any event, I don’t believe that Scotland has been considered the birth place of England.

    Well, clearly the best solution to all the world’s ills would be for the British Empire to be resurrected and allowed to stand astride the entire globe like a mightly colossus. But, failing that…

    If the Welsh & Scots feel that independence from the UK is in their best interests, then that’s what they should have. I, and most in England, wouldn’t dream of trying to stop them.

    I’m personally not convinced that independence would necessarily be in the interests of either Scotland or Wales – particularly in the economic sense. I’ve an open mind though, and am ready to be convinced.

    You’re right – Scotland isn’t the historic birthplace of England but, even if it were, the above should surely still stand. What happened hundreds of years ago should be of no direct relevance today. Historic birthplaces are one of those daft arguments that get brought out when people can’t think of anything rational to say.

    Rather like religion… 😉

  275. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”BTW, look how many years it took before an agreement was reached in Northern Ireland.”

    NI isnt independent, nor will it ever be. It is devolved, a different thing altogether. And, neither British troops, nor the IRA, nor the UVF ever committed genocide. They knocked the shit out of each other and there were civilians killed, but there was never a systemic attempt by any side to wipe out ethnically their opponents. I dont think it requires much intellect to recognize that when the Serb government did this, they lost the right to rule Kosovo.

  276. Well Andy …

    1) “Nationality” is a side effect of a thing called “place of birth”. So being an Englishman is actually not your fault. But I admit, and I am delighted to do so, you are a member of the very rare species called “Nice Englishman” 😉

    2) As to your statement being “Pro Kosovo Independence” … well, nobody is perfect. 😉

    3) As to you agreement on point #3 … here’s my suggestion.

    Let’s install UNMISL (United Nations Mission in Siberian Light), let’s deploy SLSFOR (Siberian Light Stabilisation Force) and start negotiations regarding the partial independence of “TBFKASL – POBMA” (The Blog Formerly Know As Siberial Light – Presently Occupied By Mike Averko).

    Will you accept German Peacekeepers or shall I contact my Russian friends to send a bunch of Desantniki ? In case you should be catholic, I could also ask for the Papal Swiss Guard (remember: the pope is German). But Benedict presently has only 110 men at his disposition. Might not be enough.

    Well, you are probably not a Muslim, so sending a buch of Mudjaheddin wouldn’t be a good idea. Neither would be sending the Srpska Prva Armija.

    The peace talks could take place in Paris, I know quite a few nice places there.

  277. That’s not the only argument. There’s the economic side (Serb $$ involvement with Kosovo) and the many Serb churches in Kosovo, of which a good number were destroyed.

    When it comes to a territory like Kosovo, taking the part of a whole and treating that part as separate from the whole is problematical in terms of how other borders could be changed.

    This point probably explains why all EU and OIS members aren’t keen on supporting Kosovo’s independence.

    What was the rush to push this agenda given how greater time has been allowed on the Northern Ireland and Cyprus issues? As of now, Kosovo isn’t capable of carrying on like a truly independent nation.

    😉

  278. The Schindler troll strikes again with nonsense.

  279. If Heribert Schindler doesn’t like it, he can go to his blog and say negatively misreperesentative things about others in his native German. He does that regardless. Some really monopolistic folks out there.

  280. That’s: misrepresentative.

    Thanks Andy for contributing in a purely on topic manner in your last post. Note my disagreeing with you, while lauding that kind of discourse.

  281. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Historic birthplaces are one of those daft arguments that get brought out when people can’t think of anything rational to say.

    Rather like religion…”

    Never a truer word said. Thats why I think NI should remain part of the UK, and always have. There is a Unionist majority there who wants it so. Even the most rabid nationalists recognize that it is simply not possible to rewind 800 years. At that rate, where do you stop? Do your rewind back to Roman Times? Countries change, populations change, for right or wrong reasons, and the situation now is the only thing that is relevant.(And before anyone talks about the Republic of Ireland, it was always overwhelmingly Irish nationalist, though could easily have remained part of the UK, if the Brits hadnt made such a bollocks of dealing with the 1916 rebellion and given us devolution) The birthplace argument is actually hilarious. Apply it to Ireland, and we are entitled to Galicia in Spain, Wales, most of Scotland and parts of England and Wales. Are we getting a hearing at the UN for these territorial claims?:-)

    The facts now are very simple. Kosovo has an Albanian majority, which were ethnically persecuted in 1998-99. If it was a football match it would be a penalty and straight red card against Serbia for professional foul and serious foul play. No issue there at all. Act like tin-pot tyrants, and expect to be treated like them.

  282. Regarding a recent swet of comments:

    If there was a genocide in Kosovo, it has been against the non-Albanian population. The Serbs were far less brutal than the Turks against Kurds, Iraqi Arabs against Kurds and Russians against Chechens. Note that the Albanians are far from virtuous.

  283. Mike, make this “Mr. Schindler – Troll” and “Sir”, then I might not ask the UN to place a “candy embargo” on you … but wait … breaking news … the Norwegians have addressed the UN Security Council and complained about your exaggerated use of the word “troll” … as they claim trolls being a “Norwegian Cultural Asset”.

    Moscow and Beijing commented already, they will not veto …

  284. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”What was the rush to push this agenda given how greater time has been allowed on the Northern Ireland”

    Groan. The reason there wasnt a settlement in NI was that they were knocking the shit out of each other for 30 years beforehand and decided, wisely, that it was going nowhere. If you’re going to make comparisons, please make relevant ones. NI is in no way comparable to Kosovo, as I’ve explained above. And I wish you’d leave Ireland out of it. Its obvious you havent a clue beyond drinking the odd pint of Guinness. Kvatit, pazhaluista, it burns my eyes!

  285. The facts are that some folks censor other facts after they were presented to them

    – Albanians persecuted non-Albanians in Kosovo

    – The last 100 year demographic change in Kosovo is due in good measure to terrorism against non-Albanians

    – UNSC 1244 clearly recognizes Kosovo as a continued part of Serbia

    – Support for Kosovo independence is based on faulty premises

  286. The point about NI is that there was no rush to judgement. Same with Cyprus. Kowtowing to Albanian nationalist terrorism is a cowardly route to follow.

  287. Second submission. Pardon if duplicated.

    Heribert babbles on with troll like barbs. Let him go on You Tube with his own “comedy” show.

  288. Andy, Ger … sorry for bringing in Ireland … can we switch to “Gibraltar” please ?

  289. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Will you accept German Peacekeepers or shall I contact my Russian friends to send a bunch of Desantniki ?”

    I know a retired desant colonel in Krylatskoe. He was in Afghanistan. They’d break your arms with their little fingers. They are KRUTA. Astoundingly tough. He loves giving me dead legs, just for the hell of it. I think he enjoys the opportunity to give a foreigner some pain) Sixty years old, he’d take 99% of the male population to the cleaners fitness-wise. If you ever see a big guy running near the Velodrome wearing an Irish sbornaya jersey, thats him.

  290. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”The last 100 year demographic change in Kosovo is due in good measure to terrorism against non-Albanians”

    On that logic, should Dublin tell the Brits to move the 1.2 million Ulster Scots home so we can have Belfast back? NI was quite clearly stolen 800 years ago. But that was then, this is now.

    ”Andy, Ger … sorry for bringing in Ireland … can we switch to “Gibraltar” please ?”
    No need to apologise at all Heribert – I’m actually trying to use Ireland as an example myself. I’m not in anyway nationalist, and I’d say Andy isnt bothered really either. Thankfully its not a contentious subject for the two countries really anymore.

    ”The Serbs were far less brutal than the Turks against Kurds, Iraqi Arabs against Kurds and Russians against Chechens. Note that the Albanians are far from virtuous.”

    Thats all relative and not relevant. Genocide is genocide, end of story. And whilst it is absolutely true that the Kosovar Albanians are guilty too, Serbia was the governing nation and they kicked it off.

    ”As of now, Kosovo isn’t capable of carrying on like a truly independent nation.”
    That’s true, but Serbia, quite rightly, should not be allowed to govern it.

  291. Ger, let’s set the “genocide” aside for a minute … how about his ?

    Europol estimates, that 40% of the Heroin smuggled into Estern Europe and North America comes in via Kosovo. “Janes Intelligence Review” estimates it’s rather more like 70%. The German Intelligence Agency (BND) thinks it’s 80%.

    The German BND believes to have sufficient data to prove that the key players in Kosovo (Haliti, Thaci, Haradinaj) are strongly tied to the organized crime (gunrunning, narco-trafficking, money laundry, illegal (forced) prostitution … the German law-enforcement and intelligence community is puzzled why the heck our government supports the “independence”.

    Quite a few German military commanders are upset because …

    a) The German ISAF-Contingent “protects” narco-farmers in Afghanistan
    b) The German KFOR-Contingent “protects” narco-traffickers in Kosovo.

  292. db says:

    It is a member of the Bosnian Federation …

    Andy,

    Just to avoid further confusion, the whole thing is called simply Bosnia and Herzegovina. It consists of two so-called “entities” with rather limited autonomy and misleading names: the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina and the Republika Srpska. And no, I don’t think that constitutional status of those entities is a trivial matter, especially if one bills himself a Balkan analyst.

    Ger,

    You can call me ??.

  293. GER O'BRIEN says:

    db

    I will do that. Spasibo:-)

  294. Andy

    “db” is a troll, who was unable to refute the stated manner of Republika Srpska’s formation in 1995 and the fact that RS’s constitution calls itself a republic – in addition to RS having the word “republic” in its name. Once again, the Bosniak nationalists in Sarajevo have been trying to eliminate RS altogether. The selective citing of some sources can be misrepresentative. “db” continues to show limited analytical abilities. He/she covers this up by raising nit picking points in a selective way in terms of who he/she targets.

    The other troll deceitfully babbles on about matter he’s not so knowledgeable of. For whatever one might think of some (stress some) of Hayate’s views, he has these trolls down pat. Like how the troll continues to overlook prior points and misreprsenting what was said.

    In the year and a half of Kosovo fighting prior to NATO’s bombing campaign, roughly 2 thousand were killed out of a 2 million Kosovo population. About 500 of those killed were Serbs, who at the time were said to be 10% of Kosovo’s population. Per capita wise, this means the Serbs were the greater victims. Furthermore, many of the Albanians killed during that period were those who showed a willingness to work within the existing Serb/Yugo structures. BTW, I was forwarded data confirming the view that the mentioned year and a half Kosovo casualty figure is on par and perhaps less the murder rate in some American urban areas like Washington DC.

    How many have died since the American led 2003 attack on Iraq? Is that “genocide”? Once again, note how the troll skirted the previously mentioned way the Kurds were treated under Turkish and Arab Iraqi rule. Definitely worse than what the Serbs could be legitimately accused of doing to the Albanians. Once gain noting how the Albanians are far from virtuous.

    Given the way the Kosovo demographics have changed and that land’s overall history other disputed territories: it’s faulty to have granted it independence on short notice and without full international approval. When it comes to a territory like Kosovo, taking the part of a whole and treating that part as separate from the whole is problematical in terms of how other borders could be changed.

    You earlier stated how the economics regarding independence should be considered as a possible factor. On that and oher points, Kosovo isn’t really independent.

    In summation:

    – Albanians persecuted non-Albanians in Kosovo

    – The last 100 year demographic change in Kosovo is due in good measure to terrorism against non-Albanians

    – UNSC 1244 clearly recognizes Kosovo as a continued part of Serbia

    – Support for Kosovo independence is based on faulty premises

  295. As a followup to this remark:

    “That’s true, but Serbia, quite rightly, should not be allowed to govern it.”

    ***

    Neither should the new world order screw ups who have essentially and hypocritically repackaged terrorists as “responsible” government officials in an ethnically cleansed, crime ridden area.

    Serbia minus Kosovo is economically better off and more muliti-ethnically tolerant than the KLA/foreign occupation regime in Kosovo.

    The Serb position of supporting great but responsible autonomy for Kosovo is the more prudent rote to take.

    At play in the Kosovo independence matter is the foreign miltary beachhead being established in Kosovo.

  296. “GER O’BRIEN Says:
    February 25th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
    db

    I will do that. Spasibo:-)”

    ****

    Chris Doss’ pals no doubt. We saw how he cowardly left the SL threads after making a series of repeated 100% troll posts.

  297. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”db” is a troll, who was unable to refute the stated manner of Republika Srpska’s formation in 1995 and the fact that RS’s constitution calls itself a republic ..”

    No, db is clearly not a troll. I daresay he’s actually a scientist of some description, maybe the elite type that Russia exports abroad. He’s only interested in details, and deserves admiration for it. Details and numbers are very important things, far more so than rhetoric or ‘ancient birthplaces’. Speaking of numbers….
    ”In the year and a half of Kosovo fighting prior to NATO’s bombing campaign, roughly 2 thousand were killed out of a 2 million Kosovo population. About 500 of those killed were Serbs, who at the time were said to be 10% of Kosovo’s population. Per capita wise, this means the Serbs were the greater victims.”

    I take it that you mean 10% of the Serb population of Kosovo – apologies if I am wrong. Nonetheless, this is a misleading line of argument. It ignores the other 1,500 killed, who were murdered by the GOVERNING Serb authorities. I can see what you are trying to do – make the argument that overall the Serbs were worse done by. Proportionally, yes, but literally, no. And who could possibly blame the Albanians for retribution? Mike, in fairness I know HOW the Albanians came to be a majority was wrong, and I am aware of their total refusal to integrate with the Serbs in Kosovo over the years. But the fact is they are now in majority, and in 1998 the Serb army begun a systemic genocide, an attempt which, I daresay, was aimed at getting rid of the Albanians altogether. In that sense, Serbia, as the aggressor, should pay for its misbehaviour – and lose Kosovo. Mike, if you start rewinding history and using ancient ethnic determinism, then you’re opening up a myriad of Pandora’s boxes, the world over. At that rate, why not rewind to when the Native Americans were in a majority, and give them back the US? The only facts that are important are NOW facts, not how things were.

    ”How many have died since the American led 2003 attack on Iraq? Is that “genocide”?”
    You are creating a straw man argument and attacking a position I never advocated. And the rights and wrongs of what happened in Iraq are not relevant to this discussion. Better ask yourself those questions -you are American, I am not. And for what its worth, yes, the Americans did break the law in 2003, though I’m inclined to believe it was for the right reasons. But the law was broken, nonetheless.

    ”Neither should the new world order screw ups…”
    when I hear ‘New World Order’, I start to think of people who believe in Illuminati, Jewish Banking conspiracies, Freemason plots etc. My best friend is a Mason and he has convinced me that no, they arent plotting to take over the world. Funny, I believe him! I daresay the Illuminati and the Jews arent planning hegemony either.

    ”Chris Doss’ pals no doubt. We saw how he cowardly left the SL threads after making a series of repeated 100% troll posts.”

    I have no idea what that is about. If you spoke any Russian at all, you would simply see that db extended me a courtesy, that is all.

    ”At play in the Kosovo independence matter is the foreign miltary beachhead being established in Kosovo.”
    Yes, if you believe that the Irish Empire and Greater Germany, the lead military forces there, are planning Balkan hegemony. The reality, sadly, is that Paddies like me are paying income tax to police the place.

  298. GER O'BRIEN says:

    URA! Ireland won an Oscar, with considerable help from the Czech Republic:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzQRuTwaFI8

  299. In reply to the rehashed bullshit:

    db” is a troll, who was unable to refute the stated manner of Republika Srpska’s formation in 1995 and the fact that RS’s constitution calls itself a republic – in addition to RS having the word “republic” in its name. Once again, the Bosniak nationalists in Sarajevo have been trying to eliminate RS altogether. The selective citing of some sources can be misrepresentative. “db” continues to show limited analytical abilities. He/she covers this up by raising nit picking points in a selective way in terms of who he/she targets.

    The other troll deceitfully babbles on about matter he’s not so knowledgeable of. For whatever one might think of some (stress some) of Hayate’s views, he has these trolls down pat. Like how the troll continues to overlook prior points and misreprsenting what was said.

    In the year and a half of Kosovo fighting prior to NATO’s bombing campaign, roughly 2 thousand were killed out of a 2 million Kosovo population. About 500 of those killed were Serbs, who at the time were said to be 10% of Kosovo’s population. Per capita wise, this means the Serbs were the greater victims. Furthermore, many of the Albanians killed during that period were those who showed a willingness to work within the existing Serb/Yugo structures. BTW, I was forwarded data confirming the view that the mentioned year and a half Kosovo casualty figure is on par and perhaps less the murder rate in some American urban areas like Washington DC.

    How many have died since the American led 2003 attack on Iraq? Is that “genocide”? Once again, note how the troll skirted the previously mentioned way the Kurds were treated under Turkish and Arab Iraqi rule. Definitely worse than what the Serbs could be legitimately accused of doing to the Albanians. Once gain noting how the Albanians are far from virtuous.

    Given the way the Kosovo demographics have changed and that land’s overall history other disputed territories: it’s faulty to have granted it independence on short notice and without full international approval. When it comes to a territory like Kosovo, taking the part of a whole and treating that part as separate from the whole is problematical in terms of how other borders could be changed.

    You earlier stated how the economics regarding independence should be considered as a possible factor. On that and oher points, Kosovo isn’t really independent.

    In summation:

    – Albanians persecuted non-Albanians in Kosovo

    – The last 100 year demographic change in Kosovo is due in good measure to terrorism against non-Albanians

    – UNSC 1244 clearly recognizes Kosovo as a continued part of Serbia

    – Support for Kosovo independence is based on faulty premises

    *****************

    Great overview:

    hayate Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
    A comment directed at those who think the troll is “too dim” to alter a few words in an email. This same “dim” individual was “dim” enough to know how to initially get Mike to think he was a serious poster here. He also is “dim” enough to grasp the what sort of wind-up would get Mike pissed off and apply it. He’s also “dim” enough to turn a straight forward thread into an unreadable mass of “he said – she said” bickering. He is also “dim” enough to have looked up some Irish researcher’s name and background and assumed that person’s identity for posting here. He is also “dim” enough to be able to find a Russian website. He’s also “dim” enough, after having done all of this, to still have people on this blog thinking he was a serious poster.

    I’ve not looked around here and am unfamiliar with whom is “boyfriends” with whom here (besides the obvious ger and db) but I’ve seen enough of these trolls to recognise their operating routine. Mike is fairly straight foreward, though a bit hot tempered (and always wrong when he disagrees with me ;D ), but anyone who would take the word of the troll over his, especially after all the crap that troll has already done, really should bring along a trusted friend when they go “bridge shopping”.

  300. In basketball, some call it an in yo face monster jam. The closest boxing variant is a TKO.

    Getting to the troll level (since it’s being tolerated and should be shown for its fraudulent manner), what’s db’s actual name? What formal posted/published commentary on SL related topic does he/she have?

  301. The recent referencing of Chris Doss has to do with how “db” the dominant troll and Doss have worked in a tag team like manner in prior instances.

    Among others, there was a recent SL thread where all of Doss’ posted comments were 100% troll – clearly designed to provoke in a non-substantive manner. The existing dominant troll didn’t protest this for obvious reasons.

  302. GER O'BRIEN says:

    Mike,

    you simply replied to the points I raised by repeating yourself!:-) Great debating!:-)
    Get thee to our local university or polytechnic for postgraduate studies. In the four years I have taught students, not even first years (Freshmen?) would counteract an argument by simply repeating what they’d already said.

  303. You simply repeat points that were already addressed in full. You do it in a disingenuously troll like manner by not adressing certain specifics and repeating lies and half truths, while confusing opinion with fact.

    Unlike yourself, I’m competent in debating views on the subject matter I choose to discuss.

    You’ve yet to show your worth in terms of posting a solo written non-blog aricle in the area of your claimed expertise; which is in an unrelated field to the SL discussed topics.

  304. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”In basketball, some call it an in yo face monster jam. The closest boxing variant is a TKO.”

    You mean the fact that you’ve been pasted again here (just like at SRB, GV, FFOE, Ukraine.com)? In hurling, the greatest sport on earth, we would call it ”beaten out the gate”
    Give it a rest Mike. You arent fooling anyone.

  305. The lying troll strikes again with unsubstantiated bullshit.

    As long as he continues to troll, I’ll follow-up with either the facts and-or fact based commentary, debunking his demagogic babble.

    Unlike himself, I’m competent in debating views on the subject matter I choose to discuss.

    He has yet to show his worth in terms of posting a solo written non-blog aricle in the area of your claimed expertise; which is in an unrelated field to the SL discussed topics.

    hayate Says:
    February 24th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
    A comment directed at those who think the troll is “too dim” to alter a few words in an email. This same “dim” individual was “dim” enough to know how to initially get Mike to think he was a serious poster here. He also is “dim” enough to grasp the what sort of wind-up would get Mike pissed off and apply it. He’s also “dim” enough to turn a straight forward thread into an unreadable mass of “he said – she said” bickering. He is also “dim” enough to have looked up some Irish researcher’s name and background and assumed that person’s identity for posting here. He is also “dim” enough to be able to find a Russian website. He’s also “dim” enough, after having done all of this, to still have people on this blog thinking he was a serious poster.

    I’ve not looked around here and am unfamiliar with whom is “boyfriends” with whom here (besides the obvious ger and db) but I’ve seen enough of these trolls to recognise their operating routine. Mike is fairly straight foreward, though a bit hot tempered (and always wrong when he disagrees with me ;D ), but anyone who would take the word of the troll over his, especially after all the crap that troll has already done, really should bring along a trusted friend when they go “bridge shopping”.

  306. Edit from last post:

    He has yet to show his worth in terms of posting a solo written non-blog aricle in the area of his claimed expertise; which is in an unrelated field to the SL discussed topics.

  307. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”You’ve yet to show your worth in terms of posting a solo written non-blog aricle in the area of your claimed expertise; which is in an unrelated field to the SL discussed topics…”

    ’round and round we go again. Scientific research papers are large endevours requiring months, if not years, of lab work and validation. They are almost always published by at least two authors, and often many more – a paper could have 10 authors. Arts degree papers require digging in archives and libraries, logistically far less work usually than a scientific paper, though not always. In any case, the one paper I have is one academic paper more than you have published. Cos you’ve never been academically published. Cos, quite simply, you are a charalatan. Get over it already. The paper I co-wrote was one of the most significant and well known animal doping papers of the last ten years, and even lead to questions in our national parliament, after I’d detected real positives with the method. What contribution to your field have you managed? Not ONE print article in a decent media outlet. NOT EVEN ONE. Andy, sorry for this, but I’m being repeatedly abused here for simply challenging Mike’s Balkan views and I cant allow it to pass.
    And apologies readers, I’m not sounding off, but I wont be called dim by a total fraud, who’s been ran out of more blogs than he’s had hot dinners.

  308. Prove it troll!

    In any event, it’s unrelated to the SL discussed matter.

    From top to bottom in addition to other threads, it’s quite clear that I’m not a troll.

    The troll initiating repeated abuse has the gall to claim getting abused.

  309. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Prove it troll!

    In any event, it’s unrelated to the SL discussed matter.’

    Unless you’re thick, you’ll have noticed I provided a link to the paper, published in the Journal of Analytical Toxicology, November-December 2006. This is simply a matter of record. In any event, if you simply look above, you’ll see you brought this up again, not me. And again -answer directly- how many academic papers have you published? NONE.

    ”The troll initiating repeated abuse has the gall to claim getting abused.”
    Again, read today’s comments -you’ll find it was you who veered into abuse, not anyone else.

  310. There he goes again with lies and getting off topic, while misrepresenting my request to see a link of a solo non-blog written piece of his in the purported field of his expertise. Not that I really care to know, seeing how it’s unrelated to SL discussed topics and I’m not terribly interested in his apparently miserable existence. I only mention it because he abusurdly brought that matter up here.

    It’s a shame that creeps like him corrupt otherwise fine venues.

    This troll repeated an earlier false claim of a certain site being “clearly” anti-Semitic. In doing so, he glossed over how the very same claim could be applied to other sites on pretty much the same grounds.

  311. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Not that I really care to know, seeing how it’s unrelated to SL discussed topics and I’m not terribly interested in his apparently miserable existence. I only mention it because he abusurdly brought that matter up here.”

    I brought it up first time cos you asked. And you have repeatedly brought it back up. Well, my miserable existence includes being published professionally, having a PhD, having lived in Moscow, and not living on my own with a bald head full of conspiracy theories, and never having heard the sweet whistle of dropping knickers. By normal standards Averko you ARE A TOTAL LOSER, never mind the standards you claim to reach, which are pretty much bullshit anyhow. Any chance you’d tell us your day job? Making toupes?

  312. Liar. You brought it up and I asked for the goods. You haven’t delivered.

    Now, he discusses someone’s physical characteristic. Much like how he has said that “Lavelle is hard on the eyes”. A great scholarly attempt for a trolling freak.

    I’m the loser? Vis-a-vis SL related topics, I’ve achieved things of worthyness, which he hasn’t come close to matching.

  313. “Making toupes”? I’m not a phony and much unlike yourself, I’ve revealed what’s SL pertinent.

    Andy answered your trolling point about trying to pry into someone else’s life. You’re clearly a pathetically spiteful creature.

  314. GER O'BRIEN says:

    ”Liar. You brought it up and I asked for the goods. You haven’t delivered”

    http://www.jatox.com/abstracts/2006/nd/663-healy.html

    Scandal and government report:

    http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=Dalton+Report%2Bgreyhounds%2BEPO%2BGer+Clancy&btnG=Search&meta=

    Media publication of scandal and parliament questions:

    http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Dalton+Report%2Bgreyhounds%2BEPO%2BOireachtas&spell=1

    http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=Dalton+Report%2Bgreyhounds%2BEPO&btnG=Search&meta=
    There’s piles of stuff to dig through, and its complicated by non-doping issues, but basically, when we found some positive samples for EPO (having developed ourselves a technique to find it in the first place), our authorities wanted to keep it quiet(it would be extremely bad press, but of course I was horrified, and was worried I wouldnt be able to publish the scientific paper at all cos of censure), but it all exploded when our CEO was fired for something unrelated. It was the first time recombinant (synthetic) erythropoietin was found in an animal athlete(horse or hound) in the world. They were mad times, and I had to give evidence for the government report, had to resist newspapers and radios for interviews, even though I’d only scientific involvement, and we usually are totally in the background. It also gutted the organisation at large -a lot of people lost their jobs, as Dublin totally took control. I often still have nightmares over it. People who had nothing to do with it, some with big mortgages, were gone. I must have went to ten leaving parties in the six months after the report was published, and got totally drunk at all of them.

    ”“Making toupes”? I’m not a phony and much unlike yourself, I’ve revealed what’s SL pertinent.”

    I take that back -it wasnt a nice thing to say, sorry. And yes, I know, the info above aint relevant, but you did ask for it. And its an interesting story -you couldnt dream up some of the intrigue in anti-doping. And as all of this has long since been made public, I can talk about it.
    I decided to try and blog again, so if anyone’s interested:

    http://dopingchemistry.wordpress.com/

    I wasnt going to mention it till I had a bit more done, but any visits would be most welcome(sorry for the shameless advertising Andy)

  315. He finally posts other links besides the lone initial piece which was pooled in nature.

    Regardless, it’s not SL topic related.

    I saw a familiar person in media essentially outline my posted/circulated points about Russian foreign policy’s sane manner.

    People do read, with some of them expressing appreciation in ways that could be more open.

  316. Andy says:

    OK – enough. The quote below is pulled from the Wikipedia page on trolls.

    Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore him or her, because responding encourages a true troll to continue disruptive posts — hence the often-seen warning “Please do not feed the troll”.

    Generally, I’m pretty easy going about how discussions pan out here.

    I like you disucussing substantive issues. I don’t mind discussions about people’s previously published works and critiques of that work, although I could probably do without them. I don’t even mind the odd heated argument, provided it’s about something interesting, and tempers are held more or less in check.

    But this has gone beyond the pale.

    Ger took things too far earlier on, but at least had the good grace to apologise and has toned things down a bit since then.

    Mike is continuing to take things too far. This discussion was effectively over when I posted about you all rehashing the same issues back on 22 Feb but Mike is continuing to bring the same issues up, and is continually resorting to simple insults – calling people liar, or troll, etc. (I count 168 uses of the word troll on this page alone, the vast majority of which come from Mike).

    If you can’t hold a civil debate and refrain from calling each other names then, frankly, your comments add no value to this blog.

    So, from this point on, any comment I deem to be offensive, or to be picking a needless argument will be either deleted or heavily edited.

    If I need to edit more than a couple of comments, I’m going to block that person from commenting at Siberian Light.

  317. Mike is replying ot rehashed comments about his views and himself.

    Mike isn’t wrong for taking a righteous position.

    When Mike apologizes, his apology has meaning.

    Mike can easily show how he knows how to conduct himself in an intelligently civil manner on SL realted topics.

    Mike is understandably aghast at repeated negative misrepresentative comments about his views and himself personally.

    The record on this is quite clear.

    It includes Mike being pretty good at backing up his claims when compared to many others.

    Hayate made a spot on observation relative to this matter.

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